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Comment by matt_the_bass | Hacker News Reader

I think these are great for people with experience using embedded electronics and comfortabke with soldering and low level programming (I.e probably a significant portion of HN readers).

However for those that don't have a background other than simple programming experience, I strongly recommend paying g more for a platform with good infrastructure. For example , I'm really impressed with particle.io.

Board costs are <$20 but come with cloud infrastructure and lots of examples and documentation. For those that value time over money I recommend them.

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I'm probably biased because I got started programming with a 48K ZX Spectrum when I was around 12, and low-level stuff followed.

But I started getting interested in "hardware" about this time last year. Soldering was a bit fiddly since I'd only rarely done it in the past, but the programming side was pretty simple to handle. I found tutorials which were very beginner, even non-programmer, friendly.

Of course it helps that I've programmed in C for 20+ years, and I can still do assembly-stuff if I must, but I don't think it is unreasonable for a complete beginner to do useful/fun things given enough willpower.

The only downside for me is ordering kit from AliExpress which takes ~1 month to arrive to me. I'm currently waiting on some E-Paper, which I was recently surprised to discover is very affordable..

Which e paper did you get? I was planning to order some soon

I am interested in hearing about this as well.

I went for a Waveshare 400x300 module for approximately €25.

The 800x600 module is perhaps the better size, for €46, but this is just for me to experiment with. I have no particular use for the paper, I'm just impressed that it is suddenly "cheap".

Can you or someone recommend tutorial programming esp8266 "natively"? Most of the tutorial I cam across uses a mix of arduino IDE, nodemcu or micropython. I want to interact with esp8266 and the on-board mcu directly using C. I feel like these tools abstract away a whole lot of fundamental concepts, rendering most projects out there hobby-ish.

But I have limited knowledge on embedded programming. Hope someone can shed some material programming esp8266 from scratch. Thank you!

Uh...

It doesn't get any easier than an ESP8266 and Micropython. https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp8266/esp8266/tutor...

There are plenty of good entry-level tools now available for the ESP8266. There's an Arduino bootloader, with full support in the Arduino IDE including TCP/IP and HTTP APIs. You can serve a "hello world" over HTTP in about 20 lines of code. I wouldn't suggest it for someone with zero microcontroller experience, but it's not terribly difficult to make the leap from basic Arduino projects to the ESP8266.

https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/esp8266-thing-hookup-gu...

There's also micropython https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp8266/esp8266/tutor...

I didn't find it that hard to figure out. You can do pretty much anything you want with lua on the esp boards. Soldering was a little tricky, I also have to do it outside now with my kids. I think the material for beginning electronics online rivals programming tutorials in quality though not quantity.

> I think these are great for people with experience using embedded electronics and comfortabke with soldering and low level programming (I.e probably a significant portion of HN readers).

Those days are over. The new chips come with a high level language like python, pip. You can program it like you would with a digital ocean box but with a lot more constraints in hardware.

I haven't done any soldering but I don't see why that should turn people off. I mean I am worried about the toxic fumes but I'm sure theres way to mitigate that.

The whole point of having my own chip and programming it is the experience itself. Particle.io does not make sense to me as it seems to be another commercialization via platforming of this space which might make sense in enterprise but for the hobbyist, I doubt it.

You solder outside unless you've got a great exhaust fan.

And use lead-free solder. Not much to worry about really.

I've read another comment saying that actually produces more toxic fumes?

Lead free solder requires a higher temperature, so ther are more and more toxic fumes from embedded flux and from heated pcb and components.

I see...seems like I'll just get one of these

https://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-Benchtop-Solder-Smoke-Absorber/d...

and stick with lead when I get the chance....I'll be sure to do it in well ventilated area.

And don't lick your fingers after handling leaded solder. Wash them first (with soap and warm water). Otherwise, I totally agree: it is easier to use and less frustrating, and the dangers are overrated (or: the dangers from lead-free fumes are underrated).

Me: I use leaded solder, I have a fan, I don't lick my fingers (while soldering).

Lead free solder in the long run damages solder tips and also is a lot more prone to the tin whiskers plague. Luckily I have a life time supply of leaded solder and hopefully will never have to touch the lead free junk.

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/print/volume-16/is...

https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/background/

For hobby-amounts of soldering, stick to leaded and save yourself lots of frustration. General stock lead-free solder is much harder to work with, and if you are new to soldering it can be a horrible introduction to the fine art.

I would heavily recommend against lead free solder as the other commenters have done. Unless you have a ton of experience with soldering, avoid it like the plague.

Lead was never the problem (just dont eat solder paste). Its the toxic fumes from fluxes needed to wet the metal, aka etch away oxidation layer. Very nasty stuff. The nicer te flux (RMA, no clean), the more toxic.

The tiny amount of soldering involved in an 8266 etc project is not a concern. Use standard 63/37 lead/tin solder and wash your hands afterwards to be perfectly safe. The rosin flux fumes may be a bit annoying for some people, a small battery powered desktop fan will blow them away.

nodemcu is a variant of esp8266. here is a great case from thingiverse[1] that you can get printed on 3dhubs for cheap. the case design lets you avoid soldering, the gpio feet just sink into the case, and make contact with any wires you want. not sure how solid this is compared to soldering, but i think for most use cases it's fine, and keeps things very simple.

as others have said, those days are over. micropython with esp8266 is insanely easy[2].

1. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1128026 2. https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp8266

ah this is a perfect gateway for noobs like me! thanks for this.

I'm super excited about 3dhubs! I didn't know such service existed. Wonder what the pricing is like.

3dhubs is a market place. you choose from local printers, and if u go bottom of the barrel on price (as i do) it usually means u just wait longer for shipping. i printed x5 nodemcu cases and x5 raspi cases for ~$30 total, arrived a week later. pickup is also possible instead of delivery.

what software do you use to design the 3dhubs? do you need to know basic CAD? thank you.

i just used the stl files from thingiverse. no modifications.

ESP32 is way better than a PCW 1512, with dual core and network capabilities.

Any programming language available for MS-DOS back in the PCW 1512 is doable in a ESP32.

Programming can be low-level like we used to do in Assembly, or high level Turbo Basic, Turbo Pascal, Modula-2, C, C++ style.

As of about 3 months ago, software support for the ESP32 was incredibly lacking. Many very important ESP8266 libraries were incompatible with the ESP32. I ended up having to switch chips mid project because I simply didn't have time (or the skills) to write the code for a modern networking stack from scratch. That being said, the ESP32 has incredible hardware.

Are these particle.io kits completely soldering-free? I've been looking to experiment a bit with some embedded projects purely for fun and I don't mind low level programming at all (if it has a C compiler or at least a decent assembly manual, I'm good), but soldering (presumably, the smell of the flux, but I've never cared to investigate and would rather just avoid it) is a strong migraine trigger for me.

There is a pretty good sized ecosystem from particle and other compatible products that all just plug together like Arduino shields. No soldering needed for those. They also have a Shield-shield which adapts to Arduino Uno shields.

One can, of course, build their own boards which requires soldering.

you can just plug it into a breadboard.

I have a few working without soldering; I just stripped wires and threaded them through the contact opening. I intended to solder after I confirmed it was working right but never got around to it.

So far I've got an Alexa controlled IR transmitter that controls my TV, an LED board showing the current bitcoin price, the temperature outside and the status of the local highway and I've got some led strips controlled by Alexa.

I haven't coded for years and it was a lot of fun.

There are some other devices out there that are made to allow alligator clips onto leads or to use conductive thread, so no soldering is required. Adafruit makes several great little boards, but if you're getting started I'd recommend the "Circuit Playground" board: https://www.adafruit.com/product/3333 It has a number of sensors and LEDs built in already as well and supports CircuitPython, Microsoft MakeCode, and the Arduino framework.

I started with Particle because it's so easy to get going, partly due to the OTA firmware loading. If I remember correctly I only needed an app on my phone and the in-browser IDE. No wires, no programming hardware, etc.

From there on I transitioned to more DIY things like the ESP over time, buying cheap stuff from AliExpress.

Electric Imp is another alternative, though I'm biased ;)

A bit better at scaling than particle in my opinion, not that that really matters for little diy one off projects though.

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