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Comment by wallace_f | Hacker News Reader

>I am a massive skeptic when it comes to UFOs / the supernatural

Interestingly UFOs and supernatural events have been clumped together, but afaik these UFO claims typically don't require rewriting the laws of physics. If a UFO's existence was proven, and in the public domain, it would go from -100 to +100 in terms of people's attitudes of "that's all just a bunch of balogna" to "of course, we have always known it is very unlikely we are alone." However, a supernatural event would fundamentally shake up our scientific understanding of the universe. I think they're completely different types of possibilities.

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>Interestingly UFOs and supernatural events have been clumped together, but afaik these UFO claims typically don't require rewriting the laws of physics.

Antigravity and FTL travel require rewriting the laws of physics AFAIK, or at least amending them. There are possibilites that only seem to work on paper, assuming the existence of fudge factors like negative mass.

Who said anything about antigravity or FTL? Nothing about UFOs require these things.

The "UFO claims" mentioned by wallace_f above often describe objects that appear to defy conventional physics and aerodynamics, and the nature of those claims are what's being discussed, not UFOs in general. Specifically the link between the claims being made and the claims also made by adherents of the supernatural, neither of which can coexist with a universe that operates under known physical laws.

Assuming that UFOs behave as described, and are actual physical craft which can hover silently over a point with no visible or audible engines, propellers or exhaust, which can make arbitrary breakneck maneuvers or suddenly vanish over the horizon in seconds, as is often described, then you need an unconventional explanation for their means of propulsion. It's either antigravity or magic, but it probably can't be, say, VTOL or just really good rockets.

So they move really fast? Nowhere near faster than light though. That doesn't defy physics. It's weird, but weird things are possible.

> supernatural event would fundamentally shake up our scientific understanding

Surely we're due for one of these soon. Given our infantile understanding of quantum mechanics and physics, it's a matter of time before we observe something that defies modern science.

I know what you mean, but I guess it depends on how we define such an event? The difference between Newtonian physics failing to be accurate at relativistic speeds and the stuff of supernatural fiction coming to life seems pretty significant.

For most people, quantum theory is just as shocking as anything out of supernatural fiction. It's quite common to deny that it's real and to hope a traditional explanation will replace/modify it.

That hope has always been grounded in a fear of it's "supernatural" qualities and is becoming less likely as theorists find proofs limiting it's flexibility while keeping agreement with experiments.

I think a personal god who performs miracles, raises the dead, created the universe, knows everything, cares about whom you have sex with and in what position, etc, carries a lot more "baggage" than quantum weirdness.

Far more people are the opposite, though, accepting the existence of a personal god and the supernatural without question, while assuming science and quantum weirdness to be nonsense or outright lies.

But do you understand quantum weirdness? How would you describe it?

Doesn't String Theory require 13 dimensions or something? Maybe that is a way around FTL travel.

Keep your eye on HeartMath. Stanford is involved. There have been rumors of some awesome (in the true expression of the term) discoveries.

Could you elaborate?

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