Comment by astura | Hacker News Reader

Comment by astura | Hacker News Reader

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Disclaimer: I only scanned the article, I'm coming back to it when I get more time. I'm largely just responding to this comment right now.

Yeah... I'm very torn too...

My dad and all his six brothers and sisters, save for one, are on disability, and have been for years. Their disability, without exception, is laziness and being self entitled brats. I'm not saying they don't have medical issues, they do, but don't we all at some point? I have zero sympathy for such people. I mean, I'm pretty sickly as I mentioned in another post, I could milk it and almost certainly get disability, but I am employed. I am employed because I want to be self sufficient. I've been on short term disability in the past, I worked to get myself back into the workforce. It's just like any other setback or road block in life, you work through it and move on. If I were lazy I'd say "I can't" while on short term disability and eventually apply for long term disability or social security like my shitty family.

My aunt's and uncles can do more than me half the time. My dad is ridiculous when he talks about how difficult it was to work, he basically says, "oh God, it's so difficult.. they want me to show up and do work, and I don't want to. I'm traumatized! Pity me!"

Same as TFA, when I worked at BK we would schedule extra people on the first of the month and it would usually be unusually busy. Why? That's when social security checks come in.

I am extremely sympathetic though to the people who truly have problems working... I feel like we, as a society, should take care of such people. But separating them from the lazy malingerers seems almost impossible sometimes.

I also believe anyone who got injured in the military absolutely deserves disability.

Or maybe my personal biases are coming through from having such a shitty and abusive family. Maybe I'm truly not fit to decide who "deserves" disability?

I guess this post turned out to be somewhat of a rant...

I am extremely interested in hearing how these people you mention are on disability. My mother spent four years trying to get disability, and suffered from a degenerative spinal issue that culminated in spinal reconstructive surgery a year before she died this July at 59 (I will be forever grateful for the ACA affording her some level of care in her last years).

Without being rude, when someone says someone else is on disability and doesn’t believe they meet the qualifications, I don’t believe them. I have seen what is required to justify your disability (40% of all disability claims are denied).

Every social safety net will have freeloaders on the system. This is preferred over people in desperate need not getting the support they require.

This is how we are measured as a civilization, how we treat the weakest members (with apologies to Ghandi).

Extreme malingering.

If you work hard enough you'll eventually get it, especially if you have a lawyer. It took all of them years and appeals to get approved. If you are persistent enough you'll get approved eventually.

Eventually....

It's like that episode of Seinfeld where George worked to stay on unemployment. It was basically their life goal was to become "disabled." If you dedicate your life to being disabled... It will happen if it's literally your job... My fucking uncle worked for, I don't know how many years to become disabled.... If he put half that effort into being employed....

It doesn't surprise me that people who are terminal aren't able to benefit... The system is rigged.

Some of them, like my aunt, take injuries and claim they've never recovered from them. Even though they have. Who's going to argue with that? How can you prove anything?

My dad is surprisingly "not disabled" when he feels like it.

Once you get into "disabled" territory, you become untouchable...

You can not believe me all you want,I do not give two shits. I know what I have experienced, I don't personally care if you believe me, I don't care. I know for a fact my dad and his siblings are shithead. That I will know for life and I can't avoid.

What sort of appeals - are those prepared by lawyers?

> Every social safety net will have freeloaders on the system. This is preferred over people in desperate need not getting the support they require.

I agree and accept that cost. But at the same time so much of the "support" is ineffective. I wish I had a better solution.

Maybe someone will have a good idea here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16002063

He gave you the solution:

“Every social safety net will have freeloaders on the system. This is preferred over people in desperate need not getting the support they require.”

Let the cheaters cheat; cheaters gun cheat. It’s not going to be perfect, but we should certainly be be obligated to help those that truly need it. We’re the wealthiest society in the history of the world. We can afford it, esepcially if we can do a better job weeding out some of the people taking advantage.

I meant how to make the system better especially for those that's truely in need.

Those that really need the assistance are often forced to make choices between food and medicine. Many mental illnesses are undiagnosed. Addicts are stuck in an endless cycle.

I believe a social safety net is important and I don't see how to avoid freeloaders, but in my community I know a LOT of people who have gotten on disability completely on purpose and if you talked to them for 10 minutes they would tell you they did it on purpose. Not all states have the same qualifications to get on disability.

I'm with you both; my mom has the same unspecified affliction. I'd never seen her work, and she definitely seems incapable of it in the lazy/brat sense, at least back when we were younger.

It did make me a little torn, because I do think we should take care of people who need it, but efforts to determine/enforce 'neediness' usually just seem to make it more difficult for people to acquire help. However, that 'help' (in this case SSI) is such a miniscule bit of money anyway that I really can't be bothered with fussing over whether they 'deserve' it or not. Let whoever wants it take it, IMO.

I think "miniscule bit of money" is only looking at the individual case but on a macro scale it's incredible siginficant and "ruins" things...

I think you're, at the heart of it, really arguing for basic income which,I admit would (probably) be more "fair" than what we have now. Honestly, I don't think I can argue against BI too much.

I think what disgusts me most is that while I was a child/teen my dad collected SSDI in my name, as a dependent, while not doing jack shit to care for me in any sense of the word. It was an extra $100 a month or something. For him to claim he needs that money to "support" me is a gross injustice of the world and makes me physically ill to think about. The SSA should at least make sure that my dad was contributing $100 a month to my care - he absolutely was not. He would have kicked me out and made me sleep on the street if my mom didn't prevent it.

Again, I think I'm probably projecting rather than adding to the conversation as an "average" person....

No, the SSA shouldn't be doing anything of the sort. That would be a ludicrous expansion of their role and a waste of money. If you want to be mad at the government that your childhood was shit then at least complain about child welfare departments or something more relevant than you not thinking your dad spent his ssdi check directly on you.

Not only does it make it more difficult for people who are supposed to benefit, it is literally spending money that should be helping people on preventing them from receiving that help.

It’s not miniscule. $8k does not seem like a lot, but when the median household income is $56k, it’s 14% tax drain on that family. That is huge.

The article mentions $260B yearly cost. That’s about $2k in taxes per working adult.

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