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Comment by grecy | Hacker News Reader

I agree with you, though in the replies you are seeing the difference between how OECD countries define "poor" and how Americans defines "poor".

The vast majority of people in Canada, Australia, Western Europe, etc. would be disgusted by how much "middle class" Americans work, how little vacation they get and how much they get for their tax dollars.

In the eyes of virtually every Developed Country, "middle class" Americans are poor.

Of course, Americans don't have this perspective, because they are in it, they can't see it.

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You seem to have left out the fact that Americans make much more than their Canadian, Western European, or Australian counterparts?

Make much more money yes.

But how much of that gap is left if you factor in things like health care, access to education and infrastructure?

Just checked. Scandinavian countries, Australia and Luxembourg have higher median household income than the U.S.

Those countries are small; the total population between them is less than any of UK, France, Japan or Germany, which indeed have a lower PPP per capita than the US. The nations you mentioned also have the advantage of being the "best" countries in their respective regions attracting lots of high skilled immigrants and FDI etc.

This summer I worked at a startup in Luxembourg. I overheard a job interview my boss conducted, where an Australian with a PhD in machine learning asked for EUR60k as a salary. My boss decided to offer him EUR50k.

Costs of living in Luxembourg are about the same as in Santa Barbara (where I currently live).

I think median salaries in Luxembourg might be skewed by the presence of a large financial market (it's kind of a Wall St of Europe).

My impression is that it's the other way around; working in the computer industry carries a higher pay premium (vs. working in some other field) in Silicon Valley than it does anywhere else. So while a chef might be better off in Luxembourg, the software engineer is better off in silicon valley.

You might be right, but 50k is way too low for a software engineer anywhere in US.

What are you talking about?

The prevailing wage law of the H1B is only $60k, and these are for the best and brightest workers our mega corps need, due to a lack of qualified US workers.

So obviously, $50k is more than adequate. /s

So like 20 million people? What about the countries that make up the vast majority of Europe? Median income is much higher in the US than in UK, France, Germany, Spain, and Italy.

Not by much if you deduct retirement benefits, healthcare costs and education.

Income is only relevant when you factor in the cost of living.

Also, my point is exactly that many countries consider you "poor" if you have to work 70+ hours per week and get 2 weeks (or no) leave, even if you make $150k. That's why I said many OECD countries consider Americans "poor". (in quotes). Not poor in the sense of not much money, but "poor" in the broader sense.

A developer that makes $160k in Seattle would top out at 55k euro in Berlin. But you can get a 1/bd flat for <600eu a month in Berlin, where as in Seattle, you'll be paying over $2k.

Not even taking into account that a Germany resident could get public health care, lower cost for transportation, and could live and work in most areas without ever needing a car.

There is considerably less income inequality. Because your specific profession makes less isn't necessarily a bad thing.

As someone who has lived in both the US and Canada as a middle class person, I'm way better off in the US.

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