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Comment by Thlom | Hacker News Reader

In many countries you are obligated to "donate" one copy of any published and distributed work to the national library. That includes music, film, radio, tv, books, papers, pamphlets, websites etc. Depending on how the law is written this might also include games in playable form, so online games would require a copy of the server application as well as the client. If not games should be included asap.

Making these archives available for the general public might be difficult, but librarians are creative and many already have experience in making games available to the public. It's manageable.

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"Playable form" for an MMO would require donating a server team. These games don't run themselves.

Is that true? I keep seeing community run WoW servers for example.

A team of volunteers is still a team. Also, WoW private servers run on a reverse-engineered server infrastructure which seems to require much less babysitting than the actual live servers. I'd guess because they:

* Don't have to deal with quite so many edge cases

* Run on hardware an order of magnitude more powerful than was available to the original WoW server devs, meaning that much simpler solutions with far less sharding / IPC / configuration can still scale sufficiently well

> * Run on hardware an order of magnitude more powerful than was available to the original WoW server devs, meaning that much simpler solutions with far less sharding / IPC / configuration can still scale sufficiently well

well the hardware was never a problem, but the user base.

you can basically run a 100 people reverse engineed wow server on basically a server with 2gb-4gb memory and a non virtualized cpu (a older gen one, dual core probably enough) and you would more run into networking limits than in actually performance issues.

the problem with wow classic/burning crusade/wrath of the lich king, was mostly the overwhelming people, servers took way more than 100 people, and the biggest problem was logging them in, if there was a prime day, all sharded servers could login too many people which overloaded login servers quite regulary.

And they couldn’t just autoscale the login servers in the cloud. I remember the login servers were always an issue after down time.

> Run on hardware an order of magnitude more powerful than was available to the original WoW server devs

Back in 2012 Blizzard sold the original servers off for charity so we actually know what they used (HP p-class blades).

https://www.geek.com/games/blizzard-is-selling-old-world-of-...

The other thing that's startling to me is that not that long ago pretty much all game servers were hosted by people other than the publisher of the game. I don't think there ever was a Valve hosted CS 1.6 server and it's still true that the vast majority of TF2 servers are community run. I think the same is still true for Minecraft. That worked really well.

This is true in the US, though the process is tied to copyright - any copyrighted work (including software) distributed in the US needs to be deposited with the Library of Congress.

I think the most difficult issue with distributing these to the general public would be classifying abandoned vs. maintained copyrighted works.

Citation? I have never heard of this requirement, and if asked I would say it is completely false.

http://www.loc.gov/teachers/copyrightmystery/text/steps/

Note, this is just to register your copyright. My understanding is that you still own the copyright if you don't register, but it's weaker in many ways, so when people expect there to be money involved, they usually register the copyright.

In practice, my understanding is that if it's distributed by a serious company, it's usually a registered copyright, and so the library of congress gets a copy.

Mandatory deposit applies regardless of registration; it's just that registration requires sending a copy, which satisfies the mandatory deposit rules.

At the Copyright Office FAQ (https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/mandatory_deposit.html)

"Mandatory deposit (17 U.S.C. section 407) requires the owner of copyright or the exclusive right of distribution to deposit in the Copyright Office for the use of the Library of Congress two complete copies of the best edition within 3 months after a work is published. Section 408 of the copyright law, for a fee, provides the option to formally register the work with the U.S. Copyright Office. This registration process provides a legal record of copyright ownership as well as additional legal benefits in cases of infringement. Optional registration fulfills mandatory deposit requirements."

Then later:

"Yes. Under certain circumstances, special relief from deposit requirements may be granted. The grant of special relief is discretionary with the U.S. Copyright Office and will depend on a careful balance of the acquisition policies of the Library of Congress, the examining requirements of the Copyright Office (if registration is sought), and the hardship to the copyright owner."

Note that "if registration is sought" - even if you're not registering, you still need to apply for an exemption.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/407

"Neither the deposit requirements of this subsection nor the acquisition provisions of subsection (e) are conditions of copyright protection."

Which is to say, of course, that you are right, however you don't lose copyright protection if you don't comply. - it looks like there are no penalties until they ask you for a copy.

This lines up with my understanding that if you are serious business, the LOC gets a copy. If not? it doesn't really matter, and if you become a big deal later, well, following the rules helps you establish provenance, but isn't required for protection.

https://www.copyright.gov/mandatory/

"This law requires that two copies of the best edition of every copyrightable work published in the United States be sent to the Copyright Office within three months of publication. Works deposited under this law are for the use of the Library of Congress."

In the FAQ (https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/mandatory_deposit.html) they specifically talk about software:

"As described in Circular 61, the deposit requirement for registration is one copy of identifying portions of the computer program. However, to satisfy the mandatory deposit under section 407, a "complete copy" of the published work must be deposited. A complete copy is defined in the regulations as a copy that includes all components that make up the unit of publication, even if any of those units are in the public domain. So, if the published user guide is normally part of a package that contains other elements, then the mandatory deposit requirement requires the deposit of those other elements, too. For example, if the user guide is published as part of a package that contains a CD-ROM, an installation guide, and installation software, then each of these other elements must be deposited in addition to the user guide to fulfill the mandatory deposit requirement."

Just to be clear, failure to meet the requirements of Mandatory Deposit has not historically affected your copyright status.

> any copyrighted work (including software) distributed in the US needs to be deposited with the Library of Congress.

This is overstating things. It's unlikely that the LOC really wants your stuff, and if it does, it will let you know by sending you a Notice of Mandatory Deposit. Until then, "Mandatory" doesn't really mean mandatory.

Also, you don't need to register the work to receive copyright protection. If you write some code put it up on Github without a license, that's your code and you have the right to deny people the right to use it (among other rights). It's probably going to be difficult to prove that some random person is using your code, but that doesn't affect your rights in the code, because you fulfilled all the requirements to create those rights: you (1) created something and (2) fixed it in a tangible form.

As I mentioned, registration isn't necessary, though it does get you some presumptions that would be helpful if you ever end up in court.

Disclaimer: IANAL (anymore)

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