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Comment by pjmlp | Hacker News Reader

In Portugal is even a bit better, because all banks got around SIBS, which created a kind of mini-Internet with ATMs machines.

So we can use our debit cards for buying tickets for trains, concerts, cinema, money transfer, paying Internet shops, charging pre-pay phones,...

All without paying ATM taxes, regardless of the bank of origin.

So the majority of people, if they aren't traveling abroad or buying Internet stuff on foreign shops, don't have any need for credit cards.

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So would bitcoin be a step back here?

A step to the side I'd say

Well, assuming that bitcoin can be tracked and deanonymized, it would. Although, all cryptocoins are a step back. There's no way they could support transactions-per-second necessary.

As much as I like cards, I also prefer paying for stuff with cash.

In Portugal it is illegal to buy an expensive computer, or high-end computer monitor, or a high-end TV with cash. Similar thing in France.

Imagine yourself throwing a dinner party in a restaurant with 10 guests and they eat and drink so much that it comes to a point where it's illegal to pay that dinner with cash. Ridiculous.

I would find more ridiculous (or suspicious) someone carrying 2000€ in cash in this day and age for whatever reason, to be honest.

It is clearly a measure created to prevent tax evasion, which in Portugal is a real issue (as in most Southern Europe countries, I'm Italian) http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/may-2016-portugal-named-....

Since, as your parent says, in Portugal cashless systems are convenient are efficient, I don't really see the issue, aside from your personal preference.

> I would find more ridiculous (or suspicious) someone carrying 2000€ in cash in this day and age for whatever reason, to be honest.

You'd think.

I bought a house in Japan and I had to pay my deposit in cash, approximately US$10,000. Walking around with that much money, I've never been more paranoid in my life.

Yes, it it seems Japan has a weird relationship with bank accounts and credit/debit cards, as I learned here:

http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/

""" I would find more ridiculous (or suspicious) someone carrying 2000€ in cash in this day and age for whatever reason, to be honest.

It is clearly a measure created to prevent tax evasion, """

this shows the extent to which the banking system has brainwashed us, when 2 people cant conduct a large transaction directly without an intermediary and it seeming 'suspicious'

by that logic, if taxation is theft ==> cash is theft evasion

Why someone would risk or be inconvenienced carrying such larges amount of cash in order to carry a transaction is beyond me, and yes, I would find it suspicious.

If you lived in a country where every other week you see in the news some politician caught on camera while pocketing corruption money, you probably would have another viewpoint.

> In Portugal it is illegal to buy an expensive computer (…) with cash.

A few questions:

  1. Are you sure it’s illegal?
  2. From what value does that apply?
  3. How is that enforced?
  4. More importantly, who is in trouble if they do so, the buyer or the seller?

I live in Portugal and have different friends that bought different brand computers on different stores on different years, both paid cash, and in no case was there a problem. In at least one of the cases the cashier just made a quick call to the manager, asked “can I accept it?” and it was done.

Just did a quick search, the limit for cash payments is 3 000 euro.

https://www.dn.pt/dinheiro/interior/pagamentos-em-dinheiro-v...

Thank you. For curious non-Portuguese speakers:

  * The article is from August 22nd 2017.
  * It prohibits cash payments for anything (not just electronics) from 3000€ on.
  * For non-residents, the limit is expanded to 10000€, or equivalent in a different currency.

Bitcoin, which costs ~$20 to make a transaction now, would be a step back pretty much anywhere this century, or much of the previous one.

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