Stop Calling Yourself a Rockstar and a Ninja | Hacker News Reader

Stop Calling Yourself a Rockstar and a Ninja

blog.startupsquare.com

67 pointsTristanKromer56 comments

I sneak into concerts dressed in all black, incapacitate the drummer with the hilt of my katana, and fill in during the solos using my nunchucks as drumsticks without anyone noticing the difference (except for the occasional "man, the drummer's more awesome than usual tonight" comment). May I still call myself a Ninja Rockstar?

I just searched Monster.co.uk for "ninja". Two out of the three jobs returned were for marketing/finance jobs at Google, and in both the matching sentence was:

"You must be a spreadsheet ninja to apply."

Spreadsheet.

Ninja.

I'm having trouble thinking of two more depressingly diametrically opposed words.

I've met spreadsheet ninjas before. I only just barely escaped that meeting.

I have actually seen some rather amazing spreadsheets before, but I think of their creators less as ninjas and more as... perhaps mad scientists?

The only times I've seen "rockstar" or "ninja" used to describe programmers is in job descriptions. People try to make an otherwise run-of-the-mill web dev job sound interesting by making it sound casual and fun.

A search on Linked In for "ninja" suggests otherwise.

People try to make an otherwise run-of-the-mill web dev job sound interesting by making it sound casual and fun

Just like this: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/web/1852182884.html

Stop Calling Yourself a Rockstar, let us do it for you. http://www.startupsquare.com/index.php?id=people

Hilarious. Much easier to blog something than to change something.

I would use them but I only hire ninjas.

Totally correct! Had been meaning to change it, then crashed out. Woke up to shock that someone reads my blog. Then changed it. By the way...now accepting applications for a copywriter. I am very very bad at headlines. :(

Does this guy believe that when coders call themselves rockstars and ninjas they ACTUALLY mean rockstars and ninjas?

I'm confused by the article. The humor is dry and I honestly can't tell if he really thinks we are serious about the terms. He couldn't actually think so... right?

Nobody tell this guy he has "killer shoes" because he may start to think his feet are out to get him.

No, he's saying the analogies are far short of appropriate:

Seriously guys…I’m sure we can think of some ego flattering terms for a good programmer that don’t immediately imply that hiring them would be an act of blatant stupidity. I’m open to suggestions.

Thanks for the clarification. Also I just thought it was funny. And yes...my humor is dry. It's my English half.

Ah ha, so is English not your first language? If so, that may be part of why this didn't work for me.

I don't think that when we say "Ninja" or "Rockstar" we are even remotely referring to their actual definitions or what they really are in the real world.

A "Ninja", where I'm from, is considered swift, quiet, stealth, accurate and focused.

A "Rockstar" is just bigger than life, someone others can only aspire to be but few will ever be.

English is my first language. American, not as much..and SV slang most definitely not. I actually like the term ninja when applied to IT depts because I actually do want my router installed without having to hear Samurai war cries. But coding? I admittedly don't get it. There is way too much baggage in those terms. Perhaps from being in the music industry for too many years.

All in all, I just think the ninja / rockstar meme jumped the shark long ago (how's that for slang?) to the point that I actually irritated myself while writing web site copy using those very words. Anyway, no offense intended.

I rather like the terms "rockstar" and "ninja". When people use them in their blog bios, it's generally a pretty good sign that they're not an expert at their tradecraft. When you need to co-opt trendy terms to sell yourself rather than letting your work stand on its own, there's a problem. If there's something I've learned about programmers, it's that the best ones know how much they don't know and generally tend to have some measure of humility about that; it's usually the newbies that feel the need to fluff themselves up with "code ninja" and "VB rockstar".

Job descriptions get a pass, since their job is to stand out.

I've actually never seen anyone on the internet calling themselves a 'rockstar' or 'ninja' in a software related context. They always call others 'rockstars' or 'ninja's'

Bob Geldof? Boomtown Rats to Deckchair.com In the late 90s, when Bob encountered problems booking a family holiday over the Internet for his children and his French actress girlfriend Jeanne Marine, Geldof founded online travel agent Deckchair.com. See: http://www.personallyspeaking.co.uk/sir_bob_geldof__147.html

John Perry Barlow: Grateful Dead to EFF. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Perry_Barlow

I find it quite practical that a certain type of people started to attach these rockstar/ninja labels to themselves. This way it becomes very easy to spot the douchebags.

The same goes for job listings that state these terms. Why would a smart person care to work for a company that actively seeks to hire douchebags?

A new trend -- the anti rock-star/ninja listing. This one caught my eye: http://jobs.github.com/positions/4463ed90-a175-11df-9567-22d...

I used "rockstar" to fairly decent effect in one job solicitation. It worked in context:

http://davidcrow.ca/jobs/1888/bandzoogle-rockstar-web-design...

I am told the company was quite happy with the solicitation and it apparently got them the kind of applicants they wanted, so win win.

Call yourself whatever you want. Just back it up.

Unless of course, you actually are a rockstar.

a real ninja would never tell you he was a ninja.. so you're right, only if you actually are a rockstar.

That means, if I'm a ninja I should tell you that I am, because, by the above rule, you'll now be 100% certain that I'm not.

I think you've found a strange loop.

But there are no rockstar programmers, there are only rockstar astrophysicists, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Harold_May

Which brings to mind the question: How many rock stars are programmers? There are quite a few coder-artist types, thanks mainly to Processing, but I've yet to hear about a coder rock star (let alone, of course, a coder ninja, but those are, you know, reclusive by nature).

I wouldn't call them stars, but I know at least two programmers (assuming one hasn't moved on to managing programmers) that play in rock bands. Does that count?

Todd Rundgren writes a lot of his own stuff. He's been coding since the Apple ][ days and even sold a graphics package for the early drawing tablets:

http://www.edibleapple.com/the-first-apple-tablet-from-1979/

I just checked this guy from your link and WOW! I didn't know such people existed. Will listen to his music tonight. Thanks!

Personally I think Rundgren is an acquired taste, like Zappa. But give it a shot. He's also produced some amazing albums for other groups (XTC's Skylarking being my favorite).

I think Dave Mustaine was doing HTML work, at least for a while. Can't seem to find a reference though, and that doesn't really count in my book. :)

The biggest takeaway I got from this article is that I should start calling myself a code samurai.

Try Kensai.

I think the problem is on the demand side: its employers posting jobs with ridiculous titles. I don't think applicants are walking around calling themselves ninjas or pirates or rockstars.

It's funny now these trends work. I remember the first time I heard a someone refer to themselves as a ninja and I thought it was so cool. It was this guy that had an ad on CSS Mania, if that tells you how long ago it was.

About 3-4 months ago I was sitting in class and heard my teacher talking about how all the kids want to be called rockstars and ninjas and I knew the trend was dead.

Oh Twitter and your timely relevance.

"Super America seeking 'Customer Service Superstars' — Factor that in next time your agency posts an opening for a 'Project Manager Rockstar'"

http://twitter.com/threevolts/status/20800932029

The article links to this article (via the ninja picture):

http://mettadore.com/ruby/so-you-want-to-hire-a-ninja-do-you...

Which seems to do a much better job of addressing the point.

I am confused by the immediateness of this going to the top of HN, it seems to lack any real substance.

As others have said, people don't call themselves 'rock stars' and 'ninjas', people look for them. Beyond that, using the definition that refers to the traditional use of the words rather than the idiosyncratic ones to show you don't want a 'ninja' or 'rockstar' is so fucking cheap it hurts.

I think the expediency by which it arrived at the top might possibly be indicative of how many people have exactly the same sentiment. Possibly we were all just waiting for some one to say it first. Put our disdain for the phrase in text.

Except I've heard the sentiment expressed on HN for years.

I agree on the no substance part....and I wrote it. Was very shocked that this post got any traction and now I'm curious about it from a sociology / marketing point of view.

I would say that this picture is appropriate :)

http://johnstamosfever.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/ninjas-an...

I've just been heavily criticized for not knowing that ninja is not a class in WoW. Should I feel chastised for being ignorant? Or blessed that I don't spend that much time playing video games?

Stop writing posts warning against use of these terms. You're too late. The tide turned long ago, and the ones who were there already made the announcement.

There's something to be said for misplaced egos, but spending half a breath indirectly reaffirming that titles are pointless in startups... is pointless.

Am I the only one who actually does not apply to job descriptions asking for a rockstar/ninja?

I actually applied for one job labelled "product manager rockstar" when I first saw the term. But that was mostly because I had been playing music onstage for ten years and I thought it would be funny to put that in my resume and send it in.

Maestro is my favorite term for someone who is truly a master of this craft.

I've never heard a developer call himself rockstar or ninja.

Google is quite enlightening.

http://www.google.com/search?q=I+am+a+css+ninja

... and a "thought leader." [vomit]

Stop telling me what to do!

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