Google Home Max is now available | Hacker News Reader

Google Home Max is now available

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Does anyone really find these home assistants to be all that useful? Echo, home, etc. All of them really seem to be designed to get you to buy them and then to sell you more stuff, not to actually be useful. It barely works for even simple queries. The music integration doesn't work well with Spotify on the home, and can't even add reminders. The echo has to ask "am or pm" when I tell it to 'wake me up tomorrow at 8'. It's really good at understanding the words that I say but this really illustrates the gap between natural language transcribing and understanding. The only reason I use it is that it's perfect as a handsfree music player and that has its uses in the shower, etc.

Yes, I do

I find a lot of use in mine as a voice-control system for home automation; it's great to be able to say, "OK Google, lights out!" as I head upstairs to bed.

The convenience and _naturalness_ of the interaction is just so cool!

Ironically, extremely unnatural for most "Google" interactions. Asking non-trivia questions just doesn't work very well at all.

Asking basic questions like the weather, the time, and maybe my calendar (doesn't work well with multiple calendars so while I look forward to when I can use this, I can't yet).

My roommate finds it helps with loneliness - oftentimes she's home alone because of her work schedule as a flight attendant, and everyone else is busy at work, so she has no one to really talk to. She has found some happiness with talking to Alexa.

I found this out with elderly relatives, too. They know it's a computer, but they like the interaction. When my father said 'Alexa, good night', she replied 'Sleep Well'. Several of his friends then wanted an Echo as well.

"The only reason I use it is that it's perfect as a handsfree music player and that has its uses in the shower, etc"

Doesn't this mean that you find it useful?

Yes I use my Google home daily for general inquiries like weather, the date and other random questions. If your not in front of tangible internet device why go looking for your phone or walk over to turn your PC on and or wake up your laptop when you can just ask a question and receive an answer? It’s a way better UX .. it makes interacting with the net way easier!

These speakers once they start showing the info via projection on walls or beaming the info on your TV, mirrors, etc I think are going to be even more useful.

My wife and I have enjoyed having a Google Home in the kitchen. It's worked for us flawlessly playing music from Spotify, timers, random fact queries, even recipes with step-by-step instructions.

I imagine that the functionality will only get better over time.

> Does anyone really find these home assistants to be all that useful?

Just got a Home Mini; I find it pretty useful as a living room entertainment controller.

> All of them really seem to be designed to get you to buy them and then to sell you more stuff, not to actually be useful.

While I don't actually use mine for shopping yet, reducing friction for shopping you would do anyway is quite useful.

> The music integration doesn't work well with Spotify on the home

Seems to work reasonably well with Google Play Music (and the playback controls are are acceptable if minimal for Netflix; haven't used media controls with anything else.)

> and can't even add reminders.

The Home doesn't seem to have trouble adding reminders for me.

> The echo has to ask "am or pm" when I tell it to 'wake me up tomorrow at 8'.

While 8am is more likely, it's not impossible that someone would mean pm (people have all kinds of different schedules), and confirmation is better than assumption with alarms. So, so see this as doing the right thing.

> The only reason I use it is that it's perfect as a handsfree music player and that has its uses in the shower, etc.

So clearly you find it useful.

I've got a couple of Homes, and I find them pretty useful overall but definitely not essential. Main things I use them for;

1. Alarm clock + morning briefing while I get ready

2. Music player (youtube music works really well, spotify doesn't)

3. Cooking assistant, setting timers etc

4. TV remote - saying "ok google, play xyz" is the ultimate in lazy and I love it

Eventually, and when they get a little cheaper, I intend to invest in a suite of smart lights which (probably?) go nicely with an assistant.

Having said that, natural language stuff still has a long way to go. Ultimately I think of them more as a semi-useful toy.

Disclaimer: I work on the Google Home hardware team.

I have tested a few of these, and have a Max and a regular Home in my house. Also have the assistant on my NVIDIA Shield and on Android Auto. I find them handier than I thought I would. But my kids might finder them handier than I do.

My 10 year old daughter really likes the home, she has it in her room and uses it to listen to whatever music she wants, which she sings along to. She gets the weather from it, sets alarms if she needs them, and generally finds it useful.

I use it to find my phone ("hey google, where's my phone" to get it to ring), to ask about weather, travel times, math questions [especially good with the kids], and most often to play music.. either by cast from my phone or computer, or just by verbal request. The Max sounds _really_ good. I need to get a second so I can get stereo though.

I think they're handy and getting handier. I can't compare to the competition, though.

Echo Dot integrated with Logitech Harmony, useful for turning multiple components on/off with one phrase.

Integrated with Sonos, easier to play music than using my phone.

Home assistants really are useful if they are integrated and work well. I want to try a RP3 version of Alexa next.

Our Echo Dots became signficantly more useful after getting smart bulbs and smart plugs.

“Alexa, turn on Christmas!”

“Okay.”

We need have a couple Google homes and family uses them all the time. We first had the Echo but since purchased Google homes.

The big difference is the Echo requires rigid language or basically commands you memorize versus the Google home natural language for most things. It is like the Echo is a command line and the Google Home a GUI.

I don’t trust Google not to record every single thing I say and feed that into their advertising platform. For this reason I will probably wait and get a HomePod...

Downvoters: I presume you have evidence that Google won’t use your interactions with Google Assistant to better advertise to you?

They'll do it eventually. It's too tempting not to. First they have break the barrier by getting a physical presence. They can slowly get to their main objective by rolling it out piece by piece. (Most) People won't even see it happening.

They are addicted to data because it pays and they're willing to do anything to get it. They dumped wireless data when doing Streetview photography even when they didn't have a reason. They captured location data from Android users without consent and secretly uploaded if later when they had connectivity. They have no credibility left in my opinion.

Wait for super accurate per person voice recognition and imagine the profiles they'll build.... Better ask your friends before you visit their place to switch off the telescreen!

Well, do you have proof that Google/Apple/Nokia/etc. isn't already doing that with your phone?

If you're going to be super distrustful of closed source stuff by companies with an interest in gathering user data and assume guilt before innocence is proven, that's fine. But you can't do it selectively!

The incentives for Apple to do this are relatively minimal and Google has a track record of hoovering up information on you to target advertising.

Almost as if it’s their entire business...

I'd say the incentives for Apple APPEAR minimal, but in reality you don't have any way of knowing what they're doing or plan on doing long term.

Good enough. Occam's razor applies.

Except Apple is ran by bean counters these days. I mean, they now have “enhanced” the terrible App Store search with terrible ads that regular people confuse with legitimate results.

Heck, Face ID is the perfect ad technology. They can charge based on attentiveness now.

Well, Google’s their business model actively encourages using this data for advertising or analytics.

The difference is that these are powered by the mains and you wouldn’t see battery drain. With a phone they’d have to give up battery life - from my understanding more than any phone currently could give up and be usable - to be constantly listening. My phone is only really on power when I’m asleep, but this would always have power and be able to listen without me knowing.

Not making accusations but I do think there’s a real difference between a microphone I’m always using and see and care about the battery drain of, and one plugged into the mains with no battery concerns.

Google has been very open about everything they know about you and has done a great job at allowing you to control it:

https://myaccount.google.com/dashboard

https://adssettings.google.com/

This is more than what any other company does.

You can choose to trust another company. I choose to trust Google.

(Disclaimer: I worked at Google several years ago, and my trust in the company has only increased after my time there.)

Wow, that’s awesome that I can turn off all the creepy features! They should put this button on the homepage ;-)

It is, "Privacy", bottom-right corner.

"You can choose to trust another company."

Voice recognition can and should only happen locally via open software, like keystrokes (which Google also thinks they have a right to), then no one has to be trusted.

I run on the assumption that anything and everything with a mic is probably recording me. If everything is or can listen to me, I may as well just take advantage of that where I can.

> Downvoters: I presume you have evidence that Google won’t use your interactions

That's a shifting of burden of proof. Do you have evidence that HomePod won't be listening in on you and share your data with advertisers?

I think you just happen to prefer Apple over Google. Nothing wrong with that, just be upfront with where that preference comes from.

Dislcaimer: I work at Google but not on this team. And I'm a Sonos owner, so I think my feedback is relatively unbiased.

I got a demo of two of these in my friend's house the other day. The sound quality is exceptional. In a stereo pair the sound was loud and clear throughout the range with good bass as well. Very impressed, plus it's just a nice looking device imo.

I jumped on the wait list when they announced it but really want to wait for some thorough reviews before I drop $800 on a pair of them. I'm baffled as to why they didn't send out review units to major publishers before releasing them for general availability.

Kinda expected for $400

I just got a couple of Minis on Black Friday sales (2 bundles; 1 Chromecast, 1 Chromecast Audio), and am extremely impressed even with those. The far field microphones are so sensitive, I can literally whisper and it'll pick it up. Also the speaker is very clear for its size.

Sure there are quirks but the ability to control Chromecast is great, and also the audio is impressive for listening to Podcasts such as DotNetRocks from my phone.

I hooked the bundled Chromecast Audio to the Line In on my Asus Sonar Deluxe 1.3 HDAV on the HTPC, which connects to a 20 year old Rotel Preamp + Amp combo (separation of concerns!), and equally old (but since then refurbished) Infinity Kappa speakers. Sound quality is great that way, so I didn't see the need for a Home or the Home Max which I knew was coming.

So I can say stuff like. "Hey Google, play {some album, artist or playlist} on the PC", and it'll cast to that if I want the big sound. It is way easier than navigating Spotify on my phone or using the Spotify software on the HTPC itself (which is limited to 1 account, with the hassle of logging out / in).

I wish Google could publish server software for Win10 so that I could cast to that as a Chromecast target rather than go via the Chromecast Audio. However I understand there's probably DRM reasons why efforts for this to happen were shut down.

As a PS, my 7 year old son absolutely loves talking to Google. It's pretty impressive to hear him figure her out.

> I wish Google could publish server software for Win10 so that I could cast to that as a Chromecast target rather than go via the Chromecast Audio. However I understand there's probably DRM reasons why efforts for this to happen were shut down.

Audio-only Cast devices do not support DRM, so I don't know why audio casting to a desktop PC would be stopped by DRM concerns.

https://developers.google.com/cast/docs/audio

One thing I'd really like to see along with the google home / chromecast lineup is a projector offering as well. Something I can set up on a shelf or mount on a wall that I can cast to or simply say, "Ok google play binging with babish on youtube". Especially if it were a laser projector (something currently available but in a very high price bracket due to lack of demand), I'd buy this in a heartbeat.

Is this really necessary? Can't you just buy a standalone projector and attach a Chromecast to it?

So more expensive than Homepod and Sonos speaker, similar if not identical features, from the one company that has shitty customer service? No thanks.

The basic Chromecast audio is $35 and has audio and optical out. That's a much better value than Sonos or the other competition. I already have those in multiple rooms, so this is attractive if I want to buy an integrated unit for an additional room that can also respond to audio commands. It fills a gap in the product line.

Expanding on that a bit - IMO a remaining gap is a Chromecast audio-like product with a microphone, that can take commands as well as play content through audio out. But I understand the market for that may be limited to people with expensive home audio setups.

Really, that would just be a Home Mini with audio output, and I suspect the Home and Home Mini don't have a separate audio output in an effort to make you upgrade to the "Max". Because frankly, you would be so much better off buying a regular Home and a $300 speaker setup than buying the Max.

I'm a Sonos user and love it, but Sonos doesn't have any assistant capability at all, so saying "similar if not identical features" seems like quite the stretch.

Sonos just released a new speaker that works with Alexa (and I think others coming?).

https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/one.html

What's different is this with Google home mini, rather than speaker size? I can't find any reason for buying it.

I think it is only higher quality audio.

And don't forget volume, a Google home mini is going be to quite underwhelming in anything but the smallest room.

Seems like they are suggesting the AI they use to dynamically configure your sound based on room placement is only available in this model.

So I was a Sonos owner and I loved them, when I sold them to buy Google Home's I was greatly saddened by decrease in audio quality. It looks like this is the Sonos replacement? Seems weird that they wouldn't just re-brand this as Google Home+ or something similar.

I am getting a very similar vibe similar to Apple iPad's where you can buy an iPad at pretty much every dimension you want. Same now with Google Home, you can get a small, medium and large Google Home... but with confusing branding.

Why is "Google Home Max" weird compared to "Google Home+"?

Especially given that the small one is "Google Home Mini".

Does anyone have some insight into the machine learning in a system like this? Could you not do the needed calibration with well-understood math? Or are there some difficult parts to the problem, where you need a trained deep learning model to step in?

C’mon, Apple, I know you want to make sure to get the HomePod right, but Google’s stealing your holiday shopping thunder here.

I only say this because $APPLE_FANBOI over here is willing to wait, but if I weren’t I’d snap up a couple of these. (Reality is not fanboism, but enough apathy to the product segment that three months won’t kill me.)

>With the Google Assistant built in, Max is always ready to start your favorite song, pause or turn it up, all with just your voice.

Does it mean that it's constantly recording every conversation within its field of reach and uploading it to Google servers where the A.I. could tell whether it's a request to play a song, a keyword to show you more targeted ads or an insight into your private life that could be stored and sold on later when an interested buyer shows up?

The answer to your question is “no”.

(I would normally add that this could discerned by the most minimal of web searches, but I don’t want to disturb your narrative.)

Googled for details - indeed it looks like the device is using a wake word. Ironically, one of the first search results [1] was about a glitch that made the "mini" version actually record 24/7.

[1] http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/11/technology/google-home-mini-...

Please supply said search, I’m trying to find out if there is a firewall between Google Assistant and Google ad targeting but it’s very difficult to find anything.

The claim was "constantly recording every conversation within its field of reach", not if commands after "OK Google" are send to Google servers. For the commands Google's terms-of-service allow (themselves) to use data to improve any of their products and that includes personalization (advertising), so I doubt such a firewall exists.

mtmail already composed a better answer than I am capable was, and has pointed out that what you ask was not the question I replied to. Your question, though valid, might have been better asked as a top-level question. Your other top-level comment implies a position that you’ve already taken (and hence the downvotes for that post). Asked as “can some clarify whether or not...” rather “I assume bad things about Google, it’s up to you other folks to dispute it...” can go a long away toward getting a useful answer and reducing downvotes (thereby reducing your chances of an answer).

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