FCC explains how net neutrality will be protected without net neutrality rules
arstechnica.com
arstechnica.com
> Consumer advocacy group Public Knowledge said that the FCC/FTC plan will not protect consumers from ISPs.
> “Not only is the FCC eliminating basic net neutrality rules, but it’s joining forces with the FTC to say it will only act when a broadband provider is deceiving the public,” Public Knowledge VP Chris Lewis said. “This gives free rein to broadband providers to block or throttle your broadband service as long as they inform you of it.”
There are literally zero pro-consumer reasons to repeal net neutrality. It will only make the rich guys richer.
Most everyone here is a capitalist I'm quite sure of it. You can try refuting your capitalist roots but any one person could say the same of yourself, "Why does that really rich overpaid programmer get all of that money. Let's repeal 'profession neutrality' and take his means to make money away." What are you going to say in response?
That is why it's bad that all this does is make the rich richer.
When the cost of entry is so high that laying cables is prohibitively expensive, it's almost impossible to compete with large cable companies to break their hold. Look at how much Google has struggled to roll out Fiber, due to all the complicated laws surrounding where and how you can lay these lines down in cities.
By forcing ISP's to maintain the fast lane, you could ensure that they would compete on fair terms, rather than just squeeze money from other corporations.
Let's hope for the future that someone new comes in. Looks up local regulations...the city gave that company exclusive franchise rights. Great.
> Woops there goes another monopoly.
I can dream, I guess.
What even...?
Because it happens by doing something that negatively affects the rest of us. If they were getting richer by something that benefitted the rest of us too, that'd be fine.
I know it's not a popular opinion around HN, but I'm not a huge fan of Title II.
EDIT ====
IMHO, better alternatives are having the FTC require 100% transparency on all information disclosures (how they use your traffic data), 100% transparency on network management practices, and 100% disclosure of agreements with content producers. Personally, I'd rather have all of that than Title II.
Yes, it keeps NN agreements fair, but it also prevents expansion.
However, the ISP's are not to be trusted. They are not benevolent, and have already tried to mess up the internet for everyone.
I hope that the follow up to this is congressional rules (that are not so easily repealed) about broadband and how it must reach X amount of speed by Y date.
I've not seen any reason why this is, other than ISP greed. Phone companies were regulated under Title II, but I've not heard anyone complain about that.
There is so much red tape that's added simply by being classified under Title II.
What does that solve? An ISP that is forthright about how it screws over its customers is still screwing over its customers.
(And please, no vapid "but other ISPs can offer better service and win" arguments. No, they can't. There is no healthy market competition in ISP-land, and there isn't going to be.)
But in the year 2017, we still can't transfer money instantly without credit checks being involved.
The internet has thrived thus far as a free market. While I agree 'something' should be done to preserve the competitive nature, I don't think Title II is the answer.
I'm not saying those aren't valuable (I think we should have them), and I agree that premature regulation can choke future growth, but I think we would need some fundamental regulation to actually prevent the worst fears. Maybe exclusivity limits on ISPs that lay the groundwork so they can recoup costs, and even collect some rent, but still allow others to compete on that groundwork.
I'm sure this had all been debated ad nauseum, and there will always be some reason why any decent idea will be argued against. But I think if we can try to find some way align ISPs and customers incentives, it'd be far better than the current situation.
Nope. The internet (or rather, providing internet access) is not now, and has never been, a free market. Ever.
Monopolist ISPs have been tacitly constrained by the FCC for at least 20 years. They don't do crazy anti-consumer stuff, and the FCC leaves them alone. Verizon comes along in 2014 after many years of this compromise, and says screw this: we're gonna do what we want, and we'll get the courts on our side and say the FCC doesn't have the authority to regulate us in this way under Title I. And, well... it worked. The courts agreed. Verizon, however, thought it would be politically untenable to classify ISPs under Title II. But the FCC didn't flinch and did it anyway. So we have strong net neutrality regulation as of 2015 because Verizon pushed too hard and forced the FCC to do something. But in reality, we had a "gentleman's agreement" of net neutrality much, much longer than that.
Radio spectrum is a scarce resource. The allowance to dig up roadsides is not (and should not be!) granted to everyone. I can't just start up an ISP company tomorrow and meaningfully compete with Comcast or Verizon. And that's not entirely bad. We can't let any random person broadcast on random radio frequencies and interfere with everyone else. We can't let any random person come up and dig up the ground and lay cables and fiber whenever they feel like it. That would be incredibly disruptive and wouldn't be in the public interest.
So we have very little competition in last-mile internet service. And that can be ok, if we regulate it properly.
But are we? Do we have a perfect system to compensate for that? Hell no. Far from it. It's actually pretty terrible. But things like net neutrality are the only things keeping last-mile internet from turning into a minefield of anti-consumer, anti-competitive behavior.
If there's another system that can give us more competition in the ISP space, then by all means, let's pursue it. But anything like that will take years to come into being, and until that happens, we need the current regulation in place.
> While I agree 'something' should be done to preserve the competitive nature
Two things:
1) What should be done, then? If you have no actual concrete ideas, then what are you actually arguing? Let's just throw everything in the toilet and hope it sorts itself out?
2) There is no competitive nature. There never has been, and unless we do something incredibly novel, there won't be. We tried the idea of requiring the incumbents to allow RAND access to their infra, but it didn't work. What else?
Seriously, if you have actual, concrete ideas, please make them known. If you don't... why are you arguing against something that has proven to work, however imperfectly, and replacing with... nothing?
There is a burden, yes, because you've got to ensure that traffic to external networks is not unduly impeded. That means that as you expand your infrastructure, you've got to expand your interconnections to other ISPs. Additionally, if your competition expands, you may need to expand just to keep up. It's could make investment in infrastructure more expensive since you can't just grow; you've also got to upgrade. It the big players will feel like they need to create infrastructure that will be used by the little players, and the little players may feel like .
Of course, the above has to happen anyways because faster networks is one of the best ways to reduce costs and attract more customers. So the real issue is that if you don't do it, you'll get FCC regulators knocking on your door.
Here's what the FCC said Net Neutrality is in the FCC Open Internet Order (2010):
1. Transparency: Consumers and innovators have a right to know the basic performance characteristics of their Internet access and how their network is being managed;
2. No Blocking: This includes a right to send and receive lawful traffic, prohibits the blocking of lawful content, apps, services and the connection of non-harmful devices to the network;
3. Level Playing Field: Consumers and innovators have a right to a level playing field. This means a ban on unreasonable content discrimination. There is no approval for so-called "pay for priority" arrangements involving fast lanes for some companies but not others;
4. Network Management: This is an allowance for broadband providers to engage in reasonable network management. These rules don't forbid providers from offering subscribers tiers of services or charging based on bandwidth consumed;
5. Mobile: The provisions adopted today do not apply as strongly to mobile devices, though some provisions do apply. Of those that do are the broadly applicable rules requiring transparency for mobile broadband providers and prohibiting them from blocking websites and certain competitive applications;
6. Vigilance: The order creates an Open Internet Advisory Committee to assist the Commission in monitoring the state of Internet openness and the effects of the rules.
Interestingly, one of the chief arguments against Net Neutrality has been that it could allow regulatory capture. That's rather hilarious, given what's happened with this FCC chairman.
What do you need to have in place if someone alleges you are not neutral? Your accuser might present well collected evidence that Hulu performance to your customers is worse than Netflix's performance. You will then claim "but we didn't do it, it is just the luck of the draw on how we choose to buy interconnect bandwidth". Is that good enough to protect you? How can you prove you didn't choose the interconnects to screw Hulu?
So there is a burden. If there is no requirement, even if you never take money to slow down someone's competitor, you are relieved of this burden.
There's a lot of revenue in charging both sides for connectivity, so it doesn't matter which is "easier", only what is more profitable.
If $encrypted_internet_video_provider wants to dictate how traffic is routed on a network, perhaps they should buy their own network.
As an example, Apple has over $200Billion stashed away in overseas accounts avoiding taxes. They could just buy Comcast, which has a market cap of $181Billion. Then it's their network, and they can run it however they see fit.
I bet Apple would rather have Comcast deal with the messy business of handling customer support for millions of boomers who can't "program" their VCR, while Apple siphons all the profits from online video streaming. That sounds a lot cheaper to owning and operating the networks themselves.
If the ISPs don't want to be in the business of carrying data, then the answer is very simple - get out of the business and give back all that infrastructure that was built out with public resources!
After which you'll go to a private prison and stay there forever because you're now a bad guy and make lots of profit for the prison company, with 50+% margins on all money going in and nowhere else to go.
It's all an exercise in capitalism running amok.
The US got what they went for: The best government money can buy.
This is why I propose the best solution is to take away the majority of both parties, and force them to shape up. The problem is education and media have already been, well I don't know how to say this very diplomatically, infiltrated and subverted, so that the main avenues open to educating and informing the people of what is going on are specifically not used for such.
This is why they want the internet next. TPTB finally began to recognize the internet for the anarchistic freedom of thought bastion by design it is, and have determined it is a threat to their oligarchical, neo-fuedal, inverted totalitarian plans.
As for the FCC chair position, lets get to root-cause analysis. The problem is that politics are so controlled by donors that presidents appoint to cabinet those who they are told to by their mega-donors. This happened with Obama and citigroup[1], I'm sure something similar happened with Bush, and it has happened with Trump. This isn't a Trump only problem.(so be wary of those who would claim the solution is to get rid of Trump) The political parties themselves, and the donors that corrupt them (largely K-street) are a root cause problem.