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Comment by nimbius | Hacker News Reader

As a Californian millennial articles like these make me frustrated. my one bedroom apartment is ~2200 a month and came without a refrigerator. home prices start at a million dollars, traffic is horrid and the city i live in is currently on fire.

That having been said, im not sure id trade California for Ohio or other so called "flyover" states. The only time they end up on the nightly news is when they violate marriage laws (Kentucky) for gay couples, stage a massive white supremacy rally (Virginia) or pass some arcane law that either wipes out womens healthcare or edifies teaching autonomous ignorance in place of biology in school.

Is there an independent perspective on these cities? Something that cuts to the point of what living in Tennessee is actually like? can I still get bulgogi and ramen? how does healthcare work? I know these states would get quite a few more transplants if they or someone just explained what it was to be a part of them.

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Because lines like "Residents commute to work without insane traffic, pay low property and income taxes, and spend time with their happy families" don't make national headlines.

The vast majority of America is a wonderful place. Ditto that the vast majority of Americans are wonderful people. Seriously go for a road trip and expand your mind. Plus the country itself is beautiful.

If you can find fulfilling employment (or work remote) then you can have a wonderful life just about anywhere. Usual advice is to pick somewhere where you have family and happen to like the seasonal weather (or lack thereof).

> The vast majority of America is a wonderful place.

True if you're white, male, and heterosexual.

> Seriously go for a road trip and expand your mind.

So maybe my initial thought was out-of-context. I do agree on the beauty of this nation. We really do have quite a bit to offer in terms of natural sights to see.

Sounds like you've been bubbled by search engines and social media. I'm in Denver but my wife is from Nashville. Nashville has bulgogi[0], has 3 different companies competing on the health care exchange this year[1] and Vanderbilt is an amazing medical college, and the city has 3 different ISP's offering gigabit internet[2]. There is a ton of greenspace with bike trails through the city. The sports teams have been doing pretty well the past few years. There are tons of "lakes" nearby for enjoying during the summer, there is some amazing hiking nearby, especially near Knoxville (including the Appalachian trail). Homes definitely aren't as cheap as they used to be there but still doesn't even compete with Denver, which doesn't compete with Seattle, which doesn't compete with SF. And that is all before I even got to the music scene which is by far the best in the country for more than just country music. Pop, country, jazz, rock, all have a home in Nashville. Karaoke in Nashville is an incredibly fun and incredibly intimidating proposition.

I've heard the Thursday evening flights into Nashville called Bachelorette Flights because so many bachelorette parties go to Nashville because it is a really fun city to go out on the town at night.

All of that and they still have no income tax.

[0]: http://www.dishtip.com/s/tn/nashville/top-dishes/bulgogi [1]: https://www.healthinsurance.org/tennessee-state-health-insur... [2]: http://www.ispprovidersinmyarea.com/tennessee/nashville-giga...

You have a very biased view about what it's like to live in states like that. You're hearing the bad stuff, but on the ground most major cities in the US are fairly similar.

You casually throw out Virginia like it's some backwards callback to the confederacy, but Northern Virginia probably has as many progressives as any area in the country due to government jobs.

Northern Virginia has something like 8 out of 10 of the richest counties in the country (due to government jobs)!

And lawyers. Lots and lots of lawyers.

To be fair, most of the state is very different from Northern Virginia and in a lot of not good ways - I have heard stories of murders being swept under the rug because people didn’t like the way they looked & acted, with police participating, all spoken casually to some others and me.

There is an ugly side to many of these places outside the major cities in the US, there is good reason to be very wary if you don’t fit into the social norms for the more remote areas.

Why are you basing your opinion of places you have never been on the nightly news? They have zero interest in giving you a balanced sense of a location. If your main goal is just to be surrounded by fellow liberals, then I guess just stay put and don't explore.

I really don't think lack of information is driving population. If you really want to move somewhere, visit it first and see if you like it. No one else can tell you if you will like it, or if the trade-offs you will inevitably have to make will be worth it. If you can't be bothered to do that, then your high rent and home prices probably don't bother you as much as you think they do.

Also reach out to any friends of friends who may be there. Tennessee is one of the healthcare capitals of this country. Many people in your network will be medical residents / fellows / etc there.

I do robotics in Northwest Florida (much less Florida Man, much more "Basically Alabama"). Trump is coming to our city tomorrow. The rally will have high turnout. There's also going to be a high turnout of protestors.

As others have mentioned, your views on these areas seem a little colored by the actions of the vocal/vitriolic minority. It's the exact same mentality as the view that everyone in tech in Cali is a douche-nozzle tech-bro. Patently false.

Just because an area leans one way or the other doesn't mean that you can't find like-minded people. But that's also a little insular, I think. In fact, I think it's healthy to have a mix. Living somewhere that everybody thinks and feels the same is how you end up with the legendary SV "Echo Chamber" that the world decries so vehemently. It's okay to occasionally meet someone you disagree with. I'm not right leaning at all but I know plenty of people that voted for Trump who aren't racist jerks and who I am perfectly comfortable to call my friends.

> That having been said, im not sure id trade California for Ohio or other so called "flyover" states. The only time they end up on the nightly news is when they violate marriage laws (Kentucky) for gay couples, stage a massive white supremacy rally (Virginia) or pass some arcane law that either wipes out womens healthcare or edifies teaching autonomous ignorance in place of biology in school.

Virginia is a flyover state now, what? Like half the federal government lives in Virginia.

Oooof Charlottesville didn’t stage a white supremacist rally. Charlottesville is an exceptionally progressive city. The white supremacists came here because Charlottesville is so progressive.

Not to swamp you with a lot of East Coast geography, but Virginia has two of the three airports for the Washington, DC, metropolitan area, and could perhaps count as "fly-outa" country instead of "flyover".

Perhaps the nightly news is not the best source of information? Flights are cheap enough that you could look at some of these places and form your own opinions.

It's not so much of a "flyover" state dynamic -- it's more rural vs urban.

States like OH and KY have more rural space, which tends to lean conservative, which increases the chances of hearing about extreme-right nonsense.

I would imagine the opposite is true in states with more urban space and the nonsense of the extreme left.

Urban areas in OH and KY are similar in terms of cultural offerings and advanced technology of most cities. Or at least they are in Columbus....

Yep. Cincinnati is just a smaller version of most every other major metropolitan area I've ever visited, and the small visits I've made to surrounding big cities (Louisville, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Des Moines, Nashville, etc) has proven the same.

Yep. Did school in Boston for several years, almost exactly the same as my life in Cincinnati and Columbus except more expensive. There are definitely pros and cons to any decision about where to live, but your life in most places is always going to be “work, go home, pay for stuff, spend time doing fun stuff with friends when possible.” The only valid exception is if you’re working in a field and position where you truly need to be exposed to the absolute highest levels of industry, e.g. NYC for finance, D.C. for law and politics, SV for tech. But the people who are truly operating at the level where that matters are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a %, and if Warren Buffet can work from Nebraska I assume that’s true even for many people who are at that level.

>can I still get bulgogi and ramen?

Yes.

>how does healthcare work?

The same as the rest of the country (read: badly)

>these states would get quite a few more transplants if they or someone just explained what it was to be a part of them

"Flyover country" is dozens of states and regions. It's different from state to state here in the Midwest, much less the Southwest or the Rockies or whatever. There's no one-size-fits-all description. As for the negative media stereotypes, shitheads doing shithead things isn't unique to the non-coastal areas. You don't hear about good news or positivity because nobody cares that Arkansas is doing well when there's other things to talk about.

As others said, take a long weekend and fly to places you're curious about. You'll see a lot of the cities are the same as ones here in CA. Some as lively, some as sleepy. It depends on what's right for you.

Also, by moving to a state that leans more conservatively or is a mixed back, you as a concerned liberal actually have a better chance of standing as a bulwark against more conservative policies since your votes actually matter more.

A lot of those states get people because of what you mentioned - the high cost of living here. When you're a parent, your needs change, so a lot of young couples I know who can't compete in the housing market or daycare costs here (LA) have been looking elsewhere.

In terms of job prospects, you're unlikely to find yourself in the reddest of red areas, which are mainly rural. You might be a slightly more limited depending on what you do but as long as you have a skill in need, you can probably find a job. There are some major, major US companies in 'unlikely' places.

Here's a geographic showing of the Fortune 500:

https://www.geolounge.com/fortune-500-list-by-state-for-2015...

Maybe that's a good place to start in terms of looking at states with something to offer.

What I could suggest is to look at more liberal or techy centers first and do the appropriate research. Places like Austin, Nashville, Raleigh (near the research triangle), and there's probably at least one in every state, are all very comfortable for those who live in California (with their own quirks all over the place).

It's such a personal decision its hard to say there's just one. For instance if bulgogi and ramen are important, Raleigh actually has a very large Asian population (or at least it did the last time I researched it thinking it might be a nice place to live).

But like the suburbs of southern California, even the flyover states have an embarrassment of riches whether it's food, culture, or whatever. Some may have stricter blue laws or laws on cannabis, some may have better infrastructure or social programs, and some may have better internet and tech infrastructure.

It all comes down to your own deeply held values and desires, but I do think there's something for everyone in this crazy country we're blessed to live in :)

> came without a refrigerator

Funny that you pointed this out, does that make any difference to anything? A fridge is pretty cheap to buy. About 1 week's rent.

In the UK each landlord has their own idea of what to supply. So some places have a fridge/washing machine other's don't. It is a bit frustrating when moving as sometimes you need to buy new stuff, sometimes you need to sell stuff as you have duplicates.

I don't think the decision to include a fridge or not is intentional. If someone lives in a property, decides to rent it out and can't be bothered moving the fridge they think 'sod it the tennant can use it'. Conversely someone 1000 miles away using an agent would just say "rent it out" and not even think about appliances.

I imagine even in the flyover states they have apartments for rent that don't come furnished with all the creature comforts.

I'm not sure what more I can say on the topic of "fridges in rented apartments" - so I will finish there :-)

> As a Californian millennial articles like these make me frustrated. my one bedroom apartment is ~2200 a month and came without a refrigerator. home prices start at a million dollars, traffic is horrid and the city i live in is currently on fire.

I'm a California Gen-X-er, my 2+2 house rent is less than that, comes with refrigerator and other appliances, and my city is not on fire.

And I can get bulgogi and ramen just fine.

Also, VA isn't fly-over; it's (like California) one of the coastal places fly-over is contrasted against. And it was hostilely targeted for a white supremacist rally by largely out-of-state groups, it didn't choose to have one.

>im not sure id trade California for Ohio or other so called "flyover" states. The only time they end up on the nightly news is when....

Not sure I see a connection between national news-worthy headlines for a given area, and how it might be to live there. If everyone took this approach, Florida would be zero population.

See if you can find local news sources, as small-scale as possible, to get a better feel for a particular place.

> See if you can find local news sources, as small-scale as possible, to get a better feel for a particular place.

No, that's a fucking terrible idea; just a little less terrible than using non-local news sources. No 'news source' has any reason to disclose all the wonderful but boring details of any places it covers.

>No 'news source' has any reason to disclose all the wonderful but boring details of any places it covers.

Disagree. Tiny town super local news is often hilariously revealing when it comes to the day-to-day mundane realities of the area.

There are other options out there besides deciding between SV and the flyover states, such as Portland, Oregon or Austin, Texas.

Can you articulate why "(ending) up on the nightly news" is important to you?

I grew up in rural Ohio (left because of the horrid economy of the 00s) and have spent over the last decade in Southern California and the California Central Coast.

I would never move back to Ohio, but that is for very personal reasons. I'd actually absolutely love to get out of California right now, but my wife is working her dream job for her dream company and cannot work remotely -- So, we are here for the long haul, it would seem.

Columbus is an amazing city with some of the very best health care in the world in the Ohio State Wexner Medical Center. Cincinnati wasn't far off, either, at least back in the 00s, and Cleveland, as well, but don't quote me on that. How it _works_, I couldn't really comment on. My experiences with health care in the area are almost 2 decades old at this point, but my father is a very sick man who has managed, miraculously, to keep trucking (on pacemakers for the last 13 years) in no small part because of the access he has to great health care living somewhat close to Columbus.

Columbus, OH is also very gay friendly. Are there bigots there? Yes, of course. There are also bigots in every neighborhood I've lived in, in California, in Atlanta, GA, in San Antonio, TX, etc...

There is a lot of culture in the area, as well, and it can be had for affordable prices. The Columbus Symphony Orchestra is great and tickets are, I believe, still easy to come by (financially). There are plays. There are museums. There's only 1 professional sports team in Columbus, so it is utterly dominated by The Ohio State University sports, but Cleveland and Cincinnati both have MLB, NFL, and the Cavs are obviously in Cleveland. Pittsburgh is a great city to visit, has major sports teams, great food, lots to do, interesting history, and is only a 3 hour drive. The Bourbon Trail is nearby (though I've heard mixed reviews from friends). There are Frank Lloyd Wright homes that can be toured (Fallingwater and Kentuck Knob both being about 4-5 hours from Columbus, close to Pittsburgh -- I've taken my wife to both in the 3 times that we visited the area). Cedar Point and Lake Erie are fun in the summer.

> can I still get bulgogi and ramen?

Some of the best Korean food I've ever had in my life was in the middle of Georgia, for what it's worth, and I now live in Irvine, CA and eat Korean at least once every week. It's very easy to discount the places in the middle of the United States without ever having been to them. And I'd encourage you to visit some of these places. I spent quite a bit of time in Nashville and Memphis and Raleigh and Savannah for work and loved my time in each of those cities. I have friends working in Nashville today and they're always droning on about how much they love it. I've been to Austin, TX, and it's a fun town, too, but I'll never live in Texas again by choice, but you may have a different experience.

There are a lot of great cities out there with a lot of opportunity, especially for raising a family, and people should stop making judgement calls on them based on things they see in the news (or, at least, do your own research).

Of course they will only make the news in CA when those things happen. The news here in CA caters to people who live here.

You are quite narrow minded and exhibit exactly what they describe as "coastal elite".

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