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Comment by zkms | Hacker News Reader

> I’m inclined to believe they’re already doing this.

AFAICT (from my charges) they have indeed been bundling charges. Charging the %+constant fee for each patron given that there is no individual payment-processor action for each patron on the debit side is absolutely nasty.

I'm not asking them to eat payment-processing fees, I'm not asking them not to make a profit, I'm simply asking them to not charge for fees for transactions that never happened.

I hope Hatreon (or any other patreon clone) steals half of their userbase because they absolutely deserve to be punished and chastised for this manipulative nonsense (along with their banning legal-but-NSFW content producers); because nothing else but people exiting from Patreon will make them feel anything.

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Hatreon's a platform designed explicitly and specifically for white supremacists, so maybe not them.

I think Hatreon was just designed to not censor things. At the moment that happens to be appealing to white supremacists and right leaning content creators, but I wouldn't be too shocked to see NSFW creators moving there soon.

Given both the presence of "Hate" in the name of the site and the fact that it's one of Richard Spencer's revenue streams, I don't agree with your assessment that it's temporary and it's oriented towards "not safe for work" content.

Sexual content can be considered NSFW and should not be conflated with a "safe haven" for hate speech.

The name is literally Hate-reon, my dude. Its audience is well-defined.

I can definitely see a Patreon alternative that might do better by folks getting some traction--Kickstarter as a PBC is interesting, I actually didn't realize Patreon wasn't. But I know a decent few NSFW creators and I can't imagine any of them going to where the Daily Stormer and Richard Spencer gets their funding.

Conflating self-declared Nazis with pornography is exactly what those Nazis would like people to do.

Conflating Nazis with pornography wasn't really my intention - I just meant that a site founded due to Patreon no-platforming people might also be a destination of NSFW creators when Patreon starts cracking down on them.

As for the audience of Hatreon, I guess I was just taking their about page [0] and community guidelines [1] at face value.

"Hate speech is protected speech. Hatreon exists in reaction to politically motivated no-platforming at sites like Patreon. Always consider your local, state, and national laws, but the site stands for free speech absolutism and will protect creators’ interests against sovereign and corporate threats. Do not abuse this protection."

In other words, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - which is a sentiment I can get behind.

[0] https://hatreon.net/about/ [1] https://hatreon.net/guidelines/

That's one way to look at it, and that's the only remotely defensible way one can wash their hands of aiding Nazis.

But it's dishonest. Taking money for Nazis is not the same as ensuring their right to speak. It means you're doing business with them. You are providing them aid and assistance, not even merely a place to speak (which no private citizen is obligated to provide and no private citizen should be removed from judgment for so doing). That's money that doesn't go merely to "speech" at all.

In no place and at no time in history has enthusiastic, freely undertaken business with Nazis made you freedom-loving or high-minded; it has only and ever made you, in the best light of history possible, a sucker and a sap (if not a collaborator). But it might make you money, so...

> In no place and at no time in history has enthusiastic, freely undertaken business with Nazis made you freedom-loving or high-minded; it has only and ever made you, in the best light of history possible, a sucker and a sap (if not a collaborator). But it might make you money, so...

Read more history. The tangent you're rambling on about both muddies the discussion and falls short of factual accuracy.

A man named Oskar Schindler enthusiastically and freely undertook business with actual Nazis and even became a member of the Nazi Party. His actions saved the lives of well over a thousand Jews and cost him all the money he had amassed prior to the war. Hatreon has nothing to do with this history and Patreon's poor terms even less so.

Psst. Schindler was not merely a collaborator, he was a Nazi. You know the whole story there, yeah? That he campaigned for Jewish labor because it was free slave labor? That he had an attack of conscience and reached minimally-decent-human-being status is certainly a thing--but all that enthusiastically-and-freely-undertaken business was Nazi-ass Naz business until his conscience, a notable omission in heildudes like Richard Spencer, made him confront that Jews are, y'know, people.

It is, perhaps, not exactly the hill you want to die on to go "b-b-b-but Oskar Schindler!". Stormfront wants heads on sticks and burning crosses on black folks' lawns. They don't care about Oskar Schindler and they don't care about the plausible deniability that Hatreon really wants suckers and saps to buy into. They know. They know it's there for them and only for them.

Don't use Patreon if you don't like their terms. Don't use Hatreon because they're for Nazis.

> Psst. Schindler was not merely a collaborator, he was a Nazi.

Psst. Had you grown up in that time and circumstance, you undoubtedly would have been, too. And it's unfathomably unlikely you'd have joined him as the second of only two ever to be honored with a burial on Mount Zion and visited by survivors for decades.

I see Hatereon and particularly Stormfront as grave threats and it pains me to see people such as yourself strengthening both through relentless snarking and bigoteering. You need only look in the mirror to understand why your society is where it is and why the politics has grown so rancid. And it's not just your society affected by your culture wars. American-style intolerance is threatening to boil over into the rest of the world, too. You are a wealthy and influential person, almost certainly in the 1% of the developed world, and the second order consequences of your actions matter.

Setting all of that to one side, speaking of "dying on hills" and trying to put a stutter in someone else's mouth is damned childish and more than a bit irritating.

Yeah it's marketed explicitly to righties, but if the hard-right set can make their own patreon clone (with sensical fee structure); other people can certainly do as well.

I mentioned it not as an endorsement, but as a proof of concept. Since it exists there's no excuse for other people being unable to replicate it (without its political marketing, of course).

I didn't know that so I checked them out and when I saw their featured creators my skin started to crawl.

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