A Generation in Japan Is Facing a Lonely Death
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
I live in Boston and they live about an hour away towards Cape Code. I make an effort to visit about once every two months, but there’s so much stuff they miss from my life and don’t see because their not on social media. They don’t know how to use a computer or iPad. We’ve tried with no luck.
One time I sent them photos in the mail of my new apartment, the first one I moved into with my then girlfriend (and now fiancé) about 5 years ago. I took the photos on my phone, printed them at CVS, wrote a caption on each one and mailed them off to my grandparents. They loved it and talked about it for months. I think I was even their favorite grandkid for a few months (I have three siblings and we compete with each other).
Fast forward 5 years later to my grandpa’s 94th birthday and I didn’t know what to get him. They’re house is full of stuff and they don’t need anything. I had been thinking about the photos I sent them for a few years and how if I made that easier, I’d probably do it more. Finally, I decided to make it into a script for our family to text photos to a unique number and once a month they get printed and shipped to Grandma & Grandpa. Now they’re regularly getting photos from everyone and they love it. We even compete to see who gets a photo on the fridge each month.
I told a few friends about the hack and they wanted it, so my older brother and I built it out into a full fledged product and recently launched NanaGram: https://NanaGram.co
Check it out if you have Grandparents and want to make their days a bit happier by feeling more connected to you. Would also love to hear HN’s thoughts too. Thanks!
Edit: spelling, grammar, and clarity.
And PSA - call your grandparents!
My grandmother lives in a retirement community and 9 times out of 10, families never come to visit the people she knows in her circles.
The photos are perfect for non tech literate elders, and while I haven’t checked out your product while mobile, looking forward to checking it out this evening!
One other interesting unanticipated side effect is that we built the service to let your (approved) family all send photos into the same phone number for the same delivery. There’s a web UI that you can log into and see all the photos. You also get a text notification when new photos are sent in by someone else.
Now my siblings and I have a private social network of sorts. There’s stuff on there I wouldn’t share to the world at large, but would with my family. It’s a good way to keep updated with what’s going on with my family too.
Another idea: if the photo has any date/time or location metadata, you could print that on the photo so the recipient has more information about the photos when they look at them later.
Reddit suggested an Adopt a Nana last week (https://redd.it/7fg6q3) which I love in theory but would need to go deep on to make it work in practice.
We do know who is sending in the photo and we support captions (scroll down to the mushroom hunting photos for an example). When captions get added, we add the name and date of the user who added the photo. Lots of improvements to make in this area, for example, I'll probably release a way to insert full note cards (maybe 1 free per order) into the shipment this month.
Right now the plan is to spend as much time as I can talking to customers and improving the product.
I would like to get some local tv media coverage in December. I'll wear a suit and a bowtie and say hi to my Grandparents through the TV. (And bring Andy too if he can swing it.)
We honestly don't really make much money on the whole project because the margins are razor thing. It's not software and there's a physical product that needs to be mailed, which costs a lot. We could jack up the price, but that would make it less affordable for most people.
The real goal is to just do some good in the world and connect more families with their elders. Yes, will admit there's some gross margin, but it doesn't even cover server expenses, needed software, etc. Been funding it on my credit card.
There's a few services that let you send post cards, but it's hard to tell a compelling story with just one picture. They also don't look great framed.
We've also seen some photo book services too, but they just tend to print on regular paper. We use real Kodak/Fujifilm photo paper, which look good around the house or in frames.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-share-digital-photos-with...
One of the things that makes NanaGram different is the group aspect. Most photo sharing apps are one-to-one. Usually, it's one person curating the photos and printing them and in most cases, they're sending the photos to themselves. For example, Groovebook.
We started as many-to-one with the first account being me and my 3 siblings curating photos together and sending them to our Grandparents. I think it was our 10th or so customer who asked us to create a way to send the same set of photos to multiple loved ones. That's when the service became many-to-many (or one-to-many if you're an only grandkid) and I started sending a copy of my Grandparents photos to myself.
My youngest brother is the most interesting (and sometimes elusive) man in the family and it's always tough getting photos from him. But every month so far, sure enough, he's reminded and sends in a sweet photo or two.
It's been the most interesting journey I've had to date. Unsure of where it'll lead but I plan to push through the end of December. I've been at it essentially full-time since the beginning of September with help from Andy on nights/weekends.
Prior to this project, I had a failed solo side project. This project is different in so many ways, in part because I have people to talk to. For example, my friend Josh has been incredibly helpful on the product design side, talking on the phone with me once a week. And of course Andy, a world-class brother who I love.
We need to reach something like 2,000 Nanas to make this a full-time focus (for me) and I think we have a shot. But if even if we don't get there, the amount of happiness generated in the world from just the first 7 deliveries outweighs the sum of all other happiness generated for everything I've worked on to date. Next week 23 more orders are being delivered and it'll be awesome fuel. Even though I'm being a bit irresponsible bootstrapping this project through to the end of December, I'll have zero regrets if we don't end up getting to 2k.
With that said, I do see the point that this is a western/capitalist phenomenon in the sense that capitalism encourages business relationships at the expense of personal ones. And it's the personal ones that are more lasting and meaningful and which you need once you reach retirement age.
If you're not, please let us know your secret.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13432312-the-butterfly-g...
> 'Engaging the Butterfly Generation', the generation of kids that just won't settle, anywhere!
I took it to indicate a generation of teenagers / university graduates that grew up being able to use the benefits of globalisation and to flit from one job or country to the next with ease.
[0]: http://www.c21media.net/conference-event/c21-kids-content-fu...
My core group of friends is in touch all the time. About 12 people since 2001. I don't talk with anyone from high school (pre-01).
It just depends on your level of effort. I think for American kids, it's definitely worth getting out into the world and seeing a different perspective. It can only improve our country when we get outside the rhetoric/news bubble and see how things are done, for better or worse, in the rest of the world.
I'm not so sure about that. I've met a great many elderly people who want nothing more than to rewind the clock. Given the opportunity they don't want to meet new people or do new things. They fear such experiences. That may be as symptom of being older and more frail, buy any answers to the problem wont come from trying to transform the old into the young. I don't think throwing technology at the problem will help. Nearly every elderly person I've met would much rather have a daily visit from a younger (50s) non-threatening person than even 24/7 video chat with their families.
But what if all their old friends were young again too?
Being suddenly young again would certainly be delightful for a while but there's a huge psychological burden that comes with living for a long time. While it may be possible to extend the life of the body, there are related philosophical considerations that the "live-forever" folks IMHO are flippantly dismissing. It makes me concerned that in the distant future we could find ourselves as a society with ever more problems that we're not equipped to deal with. We'll all likely be dead by then, but it makes for a thought.
What is the burden?
A burden I foresee is that people are going to have to choose between life extension and assisted suicide.
Hell, I type this, and I fall for it too: I'd much rather be able to live forever, without fear of Alzheimer's or a failing body. I have no idea how I'd pay for that, but I'd be a liar if I said I didn't want to Not Die.
Such as what exactly? No-one knows - including you - because no-one has ever run old "software" on young/rejuvenated "hardware". I think that 99% of people in failing hardware given the option to try their 18- or even 30-year old bodies again would jump at the chance and worry about vague hand-wavy "psychological burdens" later - or perhaps not ever if the new body didn't age...
There might be some wider problems of overpopulation though, and longer lifespan might also cause increased income inequality. That's a separate question though.
Prioritizing money and status ahead of family and friends is a personal decision. Business and personal success can coexist in capitalism but many people choose the former over the latter and assume they are mutually exclusive. I made that choice out of college and it took me until my mid 30's to realize it. It's really hard to re-learn how to go the other way, and I imagine it's even harder for someone who operates that way their whole adult life into retirement.
I did, well at least on what could have been and what I thought was my death bed. I was very ill for months and when I started to feel like I wasn't ever going to get better I tried my best to scramble to produce publishable research.
No-one wishes they'd spent more time at some pointless job sure, but I'll wager there are many who wish they'd pursued some opportunity with greater effort.
https://data.oecd.org/pop/elderly-population.htm#indicator-c...
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/01/japan-prefers-robot-bear...
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/its-population-ages-...
Which is to say: see if you can join their game :-)
When you’re retired, much easier to get at least two tables.
It's more complicated than that, but it feels like it should be a real concern as India westernizes.
Obviously most of this post is conjecture but I appreciate any thoughts you might offer on the topic.
There's the GYST website [0], but that doesn't handle what to do when you're still alive.
I don't think you can rely on kids, they'll only be there maximum for a couple of hours per week if you're lucky.
Wow, people are brutal when they are given free will! Looks like this "free will" is a brutal, evil thing.
A true capitalistic value system considers it a waste of time to pursue relationships with simply interesting people with mostly non-capitalizable quality's like good sense of humor, compassion, storytelling...etc.
Only exists for capitalistic entities, like companies. There's no "capitalistic value system" for a human - capitalist society gives you freedom to decide what your value system is on your own.
The point of the article is that no one is making emotional investments in these people.
Also, pasting the same comment in the thread several times makes it seem as if you don't actually care to respond to what other posters are saying, you just want to spam your thoughts.
The situation is far more complex than that. Japan is facing a very real crisis, and the causes are not limited to its adoption of capitalism following WWII.
You get what you value.
Regardless, the article was not about the effects of capitalism, but rather about desocialization and abandonment of the elderly population in one class of Japan. This is not caused by capitalism alone, though capitalistic systems played a part.
Remember that burning desire to spend time with random elderly people when you were 14?
Yeah, neither do I.
[0]I actually know of one, since I'm Russian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur_and_His_Squad
The problem I see with that is it's artificial.
Again, remember that burning desire to spend time with random elderly people when you were 14?
People did it to essentially earn social points and feel good about themselves, when you're a child - to get adults to praise you in exchange for some liberties, like breaking a curfew a bit.
My point is, I don't think Capitalism is the problem here.
I don't have that much trouble believing boy scouts could have been the American "Timur and his squad" in 1940.
And capitalism in Japan isn't the same flavor of capitalism in the US, and wouldn't necessarily have the same societal weight in context.
I do not think this would harm the children, and I think that many old people would be much happier in such a setting.
Reading this article and watching this random video put me in high key stress mode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Zxvr2NjDA&feature=youtu.be...
So don't have to go into this whole hog; don't need anybody else involved to make it work; and no unsurmountable reason to delay?
The future literally belongs to those who agree with the grandparent poster.
It might be your purpose, or even most people's purpose, but there are plenty that frankly just aren't that interested.
You're reiterating what I said above.
>...outliers like that tend to be self weeding anyway; no reason to shame the individual over it.
I'm not sure what you mean or are implying with the "self-weeding" terminology.
He was unfortunately estranged from his ex-wife and kids ... so as he approached his last days, my dad helped him with more and more things, including medical visits, etc. When he passed, he left him his car in his will. I still think about the guy from time to time.
If you half-ass it for the wrong reasons, of course not.
But the same thing is true, but with higher costs (both economical and psychological), if you have your own child with the same attitude.
Add : bringing in a fully autonomous individual motivated by the hope+belief+expectation that they will be there when you grow old?
Small chance, considering that the human trait which they need to be subscribed to is empathy, self-lessness and family.
A lot of which will be learnt from their own parents. Namely you.
wanting to have a child as to not be lonely in life is terrible? most kids are had for no reason at all, and its not terrible either. plus, I am pretty sure for 3 billion people in asia, this is part of the culture.
Of course it's for the parents. You can't make a child "for the child", since it doesn't exist (and doesn't care) until you gave life to it.
I don't have kids, and I've been told on several occasions that I was selfish for not doing so. Isn't it more selfish to have kids (who didn't ask for being born) for one's own joy?
However I don't think we can call having children a selfish act, it's pretty hard wired in us to do it. It's at least no more selfish than your average human.
There's a lot of positive things you can do for the environment: less or no (air, car) travel, avoid plastic and downcycling your waste, avoiding meat. As our population size increases the one best thing you can do for the environment is not having kids and if you do have kids stay as close to the amount of 1.
But having less people, especially in rich parts of the world, means they won't be able to develop technology to control the climate and, travel to other planets, and do all the other awesome things people do.
Besides whats the point of saving the environment if there are no people to enjoy it.
Sure, and one crazy narcissistic politician can also destroy Earth. That's not the point; the point is that on average, a child is going to have an average meaningful impact, and we cannot sustain the projected growth if we keep going on like we are right now. For example, those rich people you're so enthusiastic about are eating a lot of cow meat which has a terrible Co2 footprint.
> (maybe a little bit slower).
That's a good thing. If we're slower we'll be able to have more advanced technology.
Its extremely arrogant to believe that your rich kid is going to make the difference in the world. Statistically, it won't.
> Besides whats the point of saving the environment if there are no people to enjoy it.
If you decide to not procreate there will still be people to live on Earth.
If we destroy Earth for human inhabitation that doesn't equal all life is extinct.
> having a child is for the parents, not the child.
It's beyond me how you can even write such a statement. Children are not things. They are not property. They are not "for" anything.
Children are human. They are independent individuals. You can't own them, you can't abuse them, you can't ruin their lives just because you once decided to have unprotected sex.
> its sad that people have forgotten that.
That's like saying that it's sad that people forgot how natural and beneficial slavery is. With a mindset like that, I'd say that even a dog would be too big a responsibility. Get a Roomba instead. At least it won't suffer because of you.
> and its not terrible either.
Oh yes, it is. More often than not.
> this is part of the culture
That says literally nothing about how good - in just about any sense of the word - it is. I believe you're a strong supporter of death by stoning too - it's a cultural thing, after all.
Is being young and dumb a good reason? Social pressure?
Personally, I think publicly auditing other people's life decisions like this is just tacky and rude, and informs me more about the critic than the subject.
Happens to me, too - I chose not to spawn, and for some reason a lot of people feel entitled to tell me all sorts of things this fact tells them about me. I'm tired of it, and have begun replying with my views of their moral myopathy, manners and occasionally, breeding.