What is it like to live and work in Bali as an engineer?
azer.bike
azer.bike
Of course the low costs of living are related to the general economic situation, most people there are very poor by western standards and Bali infrastructure is at it's limits and has poor safety.
We spent 10 days on the Sayan Terrace area in Ubud and could certainly see the mental wellness qualities of coding overlooking a stunning vista. That said the latency was pretty terrible back to servers located in the states (quite iffy internet) + power up and down; as opposed to North Kuta where at least internet was more solid.
If younger me were trying to do something hidden way for a while coding; and location didn't make a difference, and you wanted to limit costs... it certainly would be a consideration.
Stunning beautiful country, with a lot of litter, a healthy dose of asia-traffic-chaos, lovely, lovely people, cheap cost of living. You would just have to have a bit of a strong constitution about the odd thing you'd see. Of course, you'd have to not get sucked into getting into Island time and loosing productivity to Bintangs...
Here is an example:
- Imported products have high tariffs. Electronics and Cars are usually more expensive than the US.
- No Good Transportation Hubs/Companies like DHL to move things around. Broken and corrupt customs.
- No trained professionals to repair electronics.
So What gives? I had to pay around $200 to fix a Wifi issue on a Macbook; and the worst part? Wait for 3 months until the replacement was shipped.
Let's not then get to the other issues: Health, Public Transports, Schools, Taxes, etc...
As for electronics? Stay away from ecosystems like Apple, they are expensive everywhere. Twenty years ago, our Thai office used Macs because we needed to run Japanese software that only ran on Macs. We needed to go to Penang (in Malaysia) to buy new Macs or get them fixed. But the prices there were about the same as in Hong Kong. Was it as easy going down to Golden Shopping Center in HK? No, but life was a lot more pleasant and overall a lot cheaper. We moved shop to Phnom Penh five years ago and haven't had any serious problems running a cloud service here except for the power outages.
Collecting Government stipend from a wealthy country, living in a rural area, and using nothing but free government services will make life less expensive even for the minimalist lifestyle.
But that's not the point here. The point is, is it cheaper? The answer is obviously: No!. If it was, people will move to "arbitrage" out there money/lifestyle. That's what happened with Thailand. That's what is happening with Cambodia.
It's not unlike how I often hear non-Americans talk about how friendly all Americans are, simply because when you do things like get a meal at a restaurant, the waiter will ask, "Can I get anything else for you?" Well, to me they are just doing their job but to some people from different places, the waiter is being unusually friendly to ask that.
But you're right; a person might smile at you when he is actually carry negative feelings. For example, my landlord is a greedy guy and he sometimes wants to rip me off and he also smiles :)
Also, don't assume it's all slow Islander life; Indo gets pretty hectic depending where you are (Bali included); it's got a massive population on a pretty small amount of inhabitable land
On a more long-term note, though, visa policies are much more friendly in the East than the West.
"Indonesia doesn't require visa for Turkish citizens so my family can visit me anytime they want without going through visa application processes. This is one of the reasons I left US; my family and friends always wanted to visit me when I lived in Oakland but they wouldn't go through the expensive and humiliating visa application process."
I currently live and work for a local company in Kaohsiung, Taiwan, which runs a factory making microSD memory cards.
The salary is low, but the living costs (food & rent) are very low, so I end up saving over 50% of my salary each month. It's comfortable. People who work over the Internet get paid even more, but they have to risk working illegally on tourist visas instead of having an Alien Resident Card.
I'd try to stay longer if the government would do something about the education system, dual citizenship, military service requirement, and air pollution. Those reasons make me think it's better to go elsewhere to start a family. This is a nice place to be young though.
Are these issues in Taiwan? I haven't been to Kaohsiung (except when flying back to Singapore) but my wife is Taiwanese so I've traveled to Taiwan a lot. Taiwan care a LOT about education and the people are pretty highly educated AFAIK, They also allow dual citizenship (which a lot of countries in Asia don't), granted it's impossible to get citizenship in Taiwan. And air pollution is no better/worse than say, Sydney - Australia.
Taiwan requires people to give up their previous citizenship to become Taiwanese. But people who were born Taiwanese can take on other nationalities.
AQI in Kaohsiung is over 150 today. Sydney is 20. It's better than China or India, but I still have to wear an N95 mask when I go outside, or I'll cough and my sinuses will dry up.
Visa policies are certainly more relaxed in SEA than the western world but you can't just hang out all year, working nonetheless, and expect no issues.
Source: lived there for a while and did a LOT of visa runs
> Now I have a residental permit
The prerequisite for that, according to [0], is "The Limited Stay Visa, or VITAS1, is a single-entry visa that foreigners may obtain for the purpose of investment, research, work and etc".
[0] https://flagtheory.com/residency-in-indonesia/#Residence_Per...
Still, good to explain how it's an option. I also love Bali, so long as it's as far away from Kuta as possible...
Actually I was thinking of setting up a kind of very inexpensive live-in hackerspace, in the Ukraine perhaps, with workshops for metalwork, electronics etc. and a live-in fabricator. You could live there, study, work on projects, help others.
Only Bali downside, the beachy parts can get overrun with Australians acting the way Americans do in Tijuana.
Can you deal with banks / landlords / supermarkets / doctors, etc in English?
That may be a dealbreaker for me.
Full story: I am of Sri Lankan heritage, born and raised in Malaysia and now live in Australia with my own family.
So, I know what it is like to live in an Asian country after also living in the West (er, South). My summarised take:-
UPSIDES:
Bali and other developing Asian countries ARE very cheap to live in for the long term. The food is a big plus to me, but I grew up with most of these foods and fruits, and they are a familiar part of my life. Some westerners may have trouble adapting.
For instance, I LOVE durian, but it make most of my Aussie friend retch even when I mention them. Of all the things I miss most about Asia, it is the street food.
I also miss the mixes cultures. I really enjoyed going to various friends houses throughout the year to celebrate Chinese New Year, end of Ramadan feasting, Deepavali, Christmas etc. There was a general cohesiveness of different cultures that doesn't seem as strong to me in Australia.
DOWNSIDES:
Most third world countries are rife with corruption. Get arrested in Bali and you better be ready to pony up some hard cash to the officials or else face worse consequences. Health services are also really bad, in terms of emergency services. I routinely get dental work done in Bali, but if I broke a limb or got appendicitis or an infection, I would far rather be back in an Australian hospital.
Language can also be a factor, I guess. I speak Malaysian and English, so getting around in Bali is not really an issue for me (Indonesian is 99% similar to Malaysian). However, I would struggle a bit in places like Vietnam or Laos.
Bali, and especially Ubud, are being ironically killed by their popularity. A LOT of local Australians I know go there to co-work for weeks at a time, and unfortunately, with tourism also comes nasty things like higher crime and fraud. Bali is becoming less and less safe as some of the less savoury locals learn how to manipulate and extort visitors. The old days of being humbugged by stall holders at the beach seems quaint. The newer operations on unsuspecting tourists are far more sinister.
Conclusion - I don't mean to put anyone off. Bali is a beautiful place, and Ubud is definitely worth a visit at least once, to work at with your laptop, or for a company retreat. But I wouldn't pencil it in as a 'bucket list' destination. There are plenty of other Asian countries that can offer the same, or if not better opportunities. For those used to the convenience and modernity of the US, perhaps Singapore or Penang (Malaysia) might be a better place to experience the difference in cultures?
I wanted to share this article in HN because I know many people here are looking for alternative ideas about where to live meanwhile building something independently. Not just Ubud specifically, I recommend people like me to explore developing world and consider alternative places for starting their own venture.
Cheers