Stanford School of Medicine is giving the iPad to all incoming medical students | Hacker News Reader

Stanford School of Medicine is giving the iPad to all incoming medical students

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30 pointsmgh237 comments

As far as I understand things (which might not be very far - I went to university in the UK) American schools generally aren't something you get to go to without paying. In which case it doesn't seem like the school is giving students iPads.

Yes, medical school is ridiculously expensive, but what you're saying doesn't necessarily follow. It's not like all their money comes from tuition and once they spend all that money that's it. The medical school might be taking a loss on the program, using grant money, etc. Maybe they did raise tuition $500. There isn't enough data to tell.

My understanding is that medical school is ridiculously expensive, because it costs so much to pay people with MD's, even if the just stand in front of a room full of people for an hour and do absolutely nothing.

Other people trained in similar environments (physician assistants, pharmacists, nurses) don't require significantly different materials for their educations, but their tuitions are generally much cheaper. They also tend to have few or no MD's teaching them.

Oh my, this is not the case. The clinical faculty are subsidizing the education of the students whom they teach. Basically, our educators are the same people who bring in revenue from patient care - they get paid much less than they bring in. Those who don't do much patient care are still bringing in gobs of revenue from their research grants.

I just wanted to make it clear that our educators are subsidizing us, not the other way around.

Even if the tuition doesn't go up, you are paying for it one way or another. Grant money comes from somewhere and in most cases that is your money (taxes) as well (and if not, then it is coming from corporations like Apple).

I would really doubt any school would take a loss on something like this, but even if that was the case you are paying for that too since sooner or later that loss has to be recouped (either through tuition or some reduction in services).

Different school, but this has been discussed before - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1231286

I still think it is just a marketing tool which Apple has been very successful in using. You don't see engineering schools "giving" every student a graphing calculator, which to me would actually make more sense.

Marketing? Actually, I think we've been waiting 45 years for a general purpose tablet.

http://www.filmjunk.com/images/weblog/treknobabble50_9.jpg

I think we still need an an optional stylus. Some tasks require more accuracy than a finger.

You could probably sell an app with stylus if you really thought it would help. just sell an app that includes a "free" stylus that you ship out.

You could even just sell a presser sensitive Bluetooth accessory with a demo app and get other people to build using your ecosystem.

You don't see engineering schools "giving" every student a graphing calculator...

Alas for us nostalgic old-timers: They no longer need to do this, because in the future every freshman will have already paid $2.99 or so for a smartphone app that outperforms every graphing calculator I ever owned.

Yesterday I sold my last graphing calculator: A very nice HP that I won in a raffle. It brings tears to my eyes, but I never use it for anything that the iPad/iPhone and something like PCalc won't do just as well.

Yeah, I guess I didn't think of that. I think this is the first time I've ever felt old on HN.

I have a couple issues with that kind of software, right now I have two calculators that I use on a regular basis as an engineering student an HP35s for most calculations (RPN is crazy fast, and I need buttons so I don't think I'd like phone software) and my TI89 which is basically pocket matlab and is probably something that isn't going to move to phone software anytime soon.

As for schooling calculators will always be the norm as they don't have wireless access (yet) and so on. I know no math classes really allow calculators but plenty of math intensive classes require calculators to do exams which is something a phone can't replace.

I know no math classes really allow calculators but plenty of math intensive classes require calculators to do exams which is something a phone can't replace.

I must beg to differ, the last time I took a math class that forbid calculators was high school. Now, many math classes I have taken restrict the type of calculators you can use, but that is different.

Of course, a calculator will do you little good in a class on theoretical math, but they have been allowed at least in the math classes I have taken.

I dunno, I took 8 semesters of math in college and never used a calculator in any of the classes. Didn't really use it on exams in other classes either - everything was all variables. I did use it for homeworks. I'd be hard pressed to replace it with a iPhone app though, for one thing my calculator is a lot bigger and it is still pressed for space for buttons.

Not sure why you are being downmodded.

I was never allowed a calculator in math classes (about 10 years ago), but it was allowed in every other undergrad science class. In grad courses, there would have been little point since it was uncommon to see a number besides e, i, pi and -1 (occasionally also a 2 or sqrt(2)).

One caveat, I doubt most instructors would allow students to use their phones as calculators during exams...too much potential for cheating.

I'm a medical student, and I wouldn't want this forced upon me. If a school is going to give me $500 worth of equipment, let me decide what it will be; probably reference books or study guides.

In particular, I would not want this during years 1 and 2; perhaps in year 3 it would be useful if fully integrated into the patient database and order system.

This frankly seems like a gimmick. Stanford needs to implement grades in years 3-4 to become more competitive for residency. That would be a much stronger play to attract top students than this will be.

I would assume that the idea is that these med school students will carry their iPad habit into their practices. If it's tough to get doctors to wash their hands between patients or before surgery (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/09/science/09conv.html?_r=1&#...), what're the chances that the iPad gets washed? Smudge magnet and germ vector.

There are already computers there.

There are these little wipe thingys they're supposed to use on stuff like iPads.

Slim to none.

There was one study done in the hospital that I work at(not public, sorry) that showed that the doctors(not nurses or admin staff) were the ones not complying with the hygiene requirements and they were the ones causing most hospital acquired infections. Of course the doctors are not held liable for such behaviour so nothing can be done to fix that.

Prediction: something with just as nice a form factor but which allows easier user <--> programmer interaction through faster iteration and no interposed controlling App Store will come to dominate as the medical field tablet.

I think there was an article on HN yesterday about the Justice Dept threatening certain school for their use of kindle which were not adapted for people with disabilities. This might trigger the same response.

Apple is a little more up on ADA then Amazon and the Kindle. Check: http://www.apple.com/ipad/features/accessibility.html

I have problems with doctors using these devices with the lack of a replaceable battery.

The current plan is you trade them in for a refurb one with a new battery when your old one dies.

Can you elaborate? Why would this present a problem in particular for doctors?

Just a guess: sensitive medical information may persist on the device when it's shipped back to Apple.

Even after a full OS restore? (via iTunes, etc.)

HIPAA is not Apple's responsibility as such. Rather they need to make sure the iPad allows the medical facility to achieve HIPAA requirements.

Which is why:

> I have problems with doctors using these devices with the lack of a replaceable battery.

I'm sure some will misuse their batteries and will have them get crappy in much less than 3 years.

What's wrong with that? With the sealed battery, you can spill blood all over your iPad and wipe it off, it'll work fine. After two years when the battery only lasts three or five hours, erase the device and send it in for a replacement. As long as they don't charge more than the battery + minimal labor, it seems like a fair tradeoff.

"Erase" is a funny word. It doesn't actually wipe all the data when you "erase" a device such as an ipad, it just marks the area as usable for writing.

So a doctor will "erase it", and if people want to hunter for credit cards, etc, they can scan the memory of the device after returning it.

There is a HUGE crime presence buying old hard drives looking for credit card numbers, etc on them. No reason to not assume they'll do it with iPads too.

    Apple offers a battery replacement for $99, plus $6.95 shipping, 
    subject to local tax. Apple disposes of your battery in an 
    environmentally friendly manner. [1]

However,

    A properly maintained iPad battery is designed to retain up 
    to 80% of its original capacity at 1000 full charge and 
    discharge cycles.

Which essentially means that it will last for 3 years. By then I'm sure the battery will be the last reason to replace it.

[1] http://www.apple.com/batteries/replacements.html [2] http://www.apple.com/batteries/ipad.html

I assume you're referring to the potential for sensitive data such as medical records to be left on the iPad..?

Any institution that takes HIPAA compliance seriously would address this by simply purchasing a new iPad (or Apple could face pressure to offer HIPAA compliant refurb).

If they don't take compliance seriously... well don't worry about the iPad, there's a lot more sensitive data on the truckload of PCs they just left at the local dump.

I am attending the University of Utah Executive MBA. Based on student feedback, the incoming class will all receive a laptop and an iPad with their readings and e-books pre-loaded on them. I already have my own iPad, and that has been my preferred study method as much as possible. Almost everyone disliked trying to use the Dell tablet for reading.

Well: over half of all doctors in the US find that their smartphones or PDAs are essential to their work[1], so it makes sense to start using them in med school.

[1]http://www.contracostatimes.com/bay-area-news/ci_15678222?nc...

And it only costs the students $300K.

And all the 2nd year med students must finish their remaining three years without "opportunities for efficient, mobile, and innovative learning." Condolences, class of 2013.

They could probably give them all new cars and still make a profit :)

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