Spaniards face ham shortage as Chinese market gets taste for jamón ibérico | Hacker News Reader

Spaniards face ham shortage as Chinese market gets taste for jamón ibérico

theguardian.com

128 pointsranit149 comments

Besides this ham, evidently Chinese demand has been blamed for the global shortage of avocados [0] and the lack of butter in France [1]. I've personally most noticed the effect when it comes to wide-release movies, in which the heroes manage to find some reason to end up for a brief scene in China, or to use Chinese brand products -- Civil War, Transformers, and Robocop come to mind. There's also the suspicion that American movies have had to be more generic in their themes and dialog to be easier to translate/localize for the Chinese. Ghostbusters and Deadpool were not eligible for China's market because of their supernatural and otherwise offensive content, so it's not hard to believe that moviemakers will have to work harder to justify such content [2].

As an American, seeing these examples is still kind of amusing to me in a karmic way. I assume whatever annoyance or alienation I feel is just a small bit of how the rest of the world has felt the past 50 years, having to regularly adapt to and adopt strange influences and demands because they were popular in America (Sorry about "Jersey Shore", high fructose corn syrup, the backlash against MSG, and the cocaine trade).

[0] https://phys.org/news/2017-05-china-blame-global-avocado-sho...

[1] http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/09/news/economy/butter-shortage...

[2] https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/08/did-you-catch-t...

Only 20 foreign movies are allowed into China per year. Unless part of the movie takes place in China.

Lots of movies have a special cut, just for that reason.

Modern blockbuster movies are already plagued with hectic editing and an overabundance of excuses-for-people-to-be-making-a-helicopter-landing. But some of the Chinese scenes/collaboration have worked out nicely. I can't be the only American ignorant of Chinese cityscapes. The Shanghai scene in "Skyfall" was one of the most movie's visually memorable images. Maybe "Pacific Rim"'s latter half would have taken place in Hong Kong without concern about the Chinese market (its title is Pacific Rim, after all, and a movie about robots beating monsters has a lot of freedom to be in contrived places). But apparently its popularity at the Chinese box office helped pave the way for a sequel, despite its disappointing receipts in the U.S. https://qz.com/110683/pacific-rim-trashed-hong-kong-but-won-...

This always reminds me that the city of Chongqing has 30m people and most people have never heard of it.

It's closer to 6-7 million: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16761784

Many of the 30 million people who are said to live in the city of Chongqing are actually agricultural workers living in a rural setting, he says.

In fact, he says, the area is so huge it's about the size of Austria.

Hangzhou is 9m in the urban area, and I’d never heard of it when I went to visit a friend there. There are very few points of interest there: it’s a bit like Fresno, only with 20x the population.

I thought Hangzhou was pretty cool. I had heard of it before going because it is famous for its tea. There is a lovely lake and mountain trails for hiking. Cool monastery and other holy places. I took a bike ride out into the tea fields and went to a tea museum too. It's a very popular destination for Chinese tourists, it has a lot of historic significance.

Beijing also. Officially it has 20 million people but less than 10 million are urban. Chinese cities are defined like little states.

When Bond enters the offices in Shanghai there is a Chinese security guard, but the actual office is quite distributive and is just north of Liverpool Street station in London. So does that count as “set in China”

Random trivia: significant parts of that Shanghai scene weren't in Shanghai. I did quite a double-take when bond walked off the street in Shanghai and into the lobby of my accountant's tower, here in London.

Other interesting examples:

Longmire, set in Wyoming, never set foot in Wyoming.

The Walking Dead has moved on to Virginia, but it's still filmed here in Georgia. Everyone complains about the grass "being cut," but that's realistic. It just doesn't grow, especially when there's no rain.

No one comments on how weird it is that, early on, the military firebombed downtown Atlanta to give survivors an edge, even though most of the population is out in the suburbs and exurbs. Torching all the population centers along I-85, I-20, and University Parkway would have given more people a clearer path to defensible locations. I don't care because it was a great scene, but it's weird how people's pedantry is rarely informed by actual knowledge.

This kind of thing is nothing new. My first experience with it was when I visited (and stayed in...it turned into a hostel) Luke's uncle's house from the original Star Wars film. I'm not sure why, but I was very surprised that the exterior of the home was shot somewhere else and looked nothing like the real outside of the building (well...hole, since it's dug out of the ground).

Another favorite of mine...anyone familiar with Paris will laugh at the car chase scene from Ronin where they teleport around the city from shot to shot.

Note that you can buy any movies you want in ripped dvd form in the street, some restaurants or some shops anywhere in China. They even sold it on my campus uni. Its common practice to go there once a week to pick up a bunch of dvds

I heard that you can just download complete movies off of links from Baidu.

You can also "buy" the movie on Chinese marketplaces for ¥10 (~$1.5) and the seller will message you a Baidu Cloud link with the movie.

The DVD shops have been disappearing as more content is pirated online. Progress I guess.

Interesting, back then it was already really easy to use PPTV or other "apps" that would stream anything

Now that's an interesting thing that I had no idea was happening! Do you have any examples of movies that have an extended cut to include scenes from China?

Iron Man 3 is one such movie. There is a rather out of place China only product placement scene for some drink, a scene where Iron Man is seen visiting china on TV and a final scene where Tony goes to China to have a Chinese doctor (played by a famous Chinese movie star) help operate on him to remove the shrapnel from his chest.

All the scenes can be found of Youtube.

The milk product placement was funny. The doctor/nurse scene was just so weird and out of place.

Here's one of the better compilations I've found:

http://www.businessinsider.com/hollywood-movies-in-china-201...

I'm not an expert on this, but I think the China-set scenes are generally included in the U.S. theatrical cut, Skyfall's sniper fight in Shanghai being an example [0]. I did a little more Googling and found there were a few examples of scenes meant only for China and left out of the U.S. release. Iron Man 3 apparently had 4 more minutes in which Dr. Wu gets some time to hawk Chinese products [1]. Apparently, some notable Chinese bloggers/moviegoers didn't like the obvious shilling [2].

There are far more examples of things being cut out than being added. In Skyfall's Shanghai scene for example, Chinese censors apparently didn't like the bit where Bond kills a security guard. The listed reasoning for the cuts are heavy-handed to the point of amusement, e.g. ""Mission: Impossible 3" dropped a shot of clothes on clotheslines in Shanghai for the Chinese cut. Apparently, the lack of dryer ownership is a sensitive issue." [2]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMW4dN5sGb0

[1] https://kotaku.com/why-many-in-china-hate-iron-man-3s-chines...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39m85puOQok

[3] https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/05/18/407619652/...

edit: Apparently Looper, which changed one of its locales from Paris to Shanghai, has extra scenes for Chinese audiences:

http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the_extra_looper_scenes_y

From this link (http://chinafilminsider.com/foreign-films-in-china-how-does-...), I can tell that China import at least 34 foreign movies per year.

They changed it to 39 a few years ago. That is just a limit, not a target.

This is no longer true, it’s up to 39 now for a few years. The Chinese co-production status is more about clawing back a higher percentage of viewing receipts from the state-owned film distributor.

They also are responsible for a shortage of baby milk powder and baby food from Germany, the Chinese buying all markets empty. At least that was in the news a few years ago

Australia now too.

More like an opportunity for Europe to earn a lot of money once they manage to increase production. There's still a lot of wealth inequality, both inside countries (e.g. the UK) and in Europe itself (the former DDR is a good example).

But what if the Chinese copy your product right after you have scaled up production?

In case of baby milk powder the alternatives exist on the Chinese market. Even german brands are present in Chinese supermarkets. But after some high profile cases regarding low quality products[0], some people are willing to pay a decent premium for a product sourced from a European supermarket. On the height of this crisis I have actually seen signs "max 2 packets per person" for baby milk in german supermarkets close to train stations / airports. I actually met someone who financed a trip to China by maxing out his baggage allowance with baby milk.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

Yes, I've also heard about cases where supermarket personnel deliberately mutate the packaging (e.g. by scratching) to make the milk unsuitable for sale on the Chinese market.

I believe the Chinese buy these types of imported goods (if not all imported goods in general) because of a perception that they are of a certain level of quality. The "disruption" would not be copying an innovation so much as building branding of a Chinese alternative. For most cases, it would involve changing the widely held belief that Chinese products are inferior.

That kind of brings that Chinese caviar company to mind. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-19/the-world...

Okay, but what if a Chinese milk company decides to find an international reseller (with its own QA lab)?

I imagine that a lot of "western" milk products already contain Chinese raw materials (e.g. mineral/vitamin supplements), so in a sense it would not be a very new thing.

You can’t trust the supply chain in china. Even if you do everything right, someone will create a fake product using your brand if you are successful. Supermarkets will then use the fake product because it is cheaper, and consumers get screwed.

For babies, bad milk powder can be horrible, many parents won’t take the risk and will prefer what they can get via a verified supply chain, the only choice they have right now is buying abroad.

They’re is an import quota on formula. You can import a small amount for a few days use. Anything greater is regarded as smuggling.

That isn’t true. You can import much more than a few days, especially the way milk powder is concentrated. You aren’t supposed to import for multiple babies, but the Chinese customs agents aren’t going to bat their eye at a suitcase full of milk powder packages.

What is the upper limit. 1 suitcase, 10 suitcases, a shipping container?

Shipping containers go through real customs obviously. Suitcases just go through the x ray machine on the way out from baggage claim. If you have milk powder in half or even all your suits see, they aren’t going to care much. If it’s a suitcase full of iPhones, well, that’s another story.

If The Great Wall (starring Matt Damon) is any indication, be prepared for a near future where Chinese blockbusters will compete against Hollywood blockbusters for audiences.

China is the only movie market which can afford the same budgets as Hollywood. The storytelling and CGI isn't quite there yet but it will be - it's a matter of when, not if.

As a neutral third party, I'm pretty excited to see this clash of east-west ideas

The storytelling (...) isn't quite there yet

Funny comment, since the story and screenplay writers are actually Americans :)

Direction and production mean a lot to storytelling, too, though. It's not enough just to write a good script.

Yes, fair enough, my comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Although by the description of the plot, I don't think any direction could have saved it.

Frenchman here, the shortage of butter is partly related to an increase in consumption of butter in China (and the United States as well) but honestly it is also partly explained by a problem with the supply chain in the country. We produce huge surplus of milk every year, farmers end up having to throw it away because of EU regulation, so there's no reason why we should have a shortage of butter.

The actual explanation is rather more boring: almost all butter in France is sold to supermarkets, who negotiate prices once a year. If world market prices are higher, dairy products sell elsewhere instead and French supermarkets run dry.

https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21730877-forget-about-...

So it is not just the government that can cause shortages by mishandling the supply chain. I always thought, it is quite ironic how centralised the food supply has become, with a few supermarket chains dictating everything, as if they were some communist government trying to micromanage everything.

How do you lock in a price and not lock in the supply. You can make anybody agree to any price but if they don’t deliver the goods you haven’t negotiated anything.

During the ‘06-07 fuel price spike some airlines locked in a price and were able to keep decent fares. Others didn’t and added all sorts of surcharges. I couldn’t imagine them hedging fuel prices and not getting it delivered.

I suspect they would also be locked into buying said supply.

Plus, this arrangement probably worked out really well for supermarkets in the past, this might be the first issue with supply that they've faced.

> We produce huge surplus of milk every year, farmers end up having to throw it away because of EU regulation, so there's no reason why we should have a shortage of butter.

Source?

This hasn't been true for decades. There are no milk lakes anymore because of the CAP. Spreading lies doesn't help matters.

There's been a change 2 years ago with the end of quotas [1]

Also, I'm absolutely not trying to spread lies about the topic, just pointing out that there's no good reason for France to be facing a shortage of butter given our dairy-production capacity (and those of our European neighbours).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_quota

No, the reason is the end to the milk quota system and market adapting to the new reality. At first the price of milk plunged and production went down, but then demand for milk fat (mainly) shot up. Butter was very expensive in many EU countries for a while, now returning to lower prices as production again rises. So the farmers are not throwing milk away because of EU regulation, on the contrary, currently they can sell everything they produce. And if they overproduce, it's not a failure of the EU regulation anymore.

At the same time European movies had to cut down on the showing of breasts to suit the US market. We think that's kind of amusing. Imagine kids seeing breasts! The horror!

The US market presents a bit of a challenge in that the country is so large with distinctly different cultures. Some parts may as well be called Puritanical while others are more to the Western European mindset.

The parents around my area have no problem with children seeing breasts or other body parts. Scenes involving intimacy on shows and in movies provide a good segue into conversations about sexuality. But, we have a major problem with characters slaughtering one another in gun violence.

The reality is that we simply watch more Amazon and Netflix original series/movies, in which body parts and sexuality are more likely, and avoid shoot-em-up blockbusters.

We spaniards are just absolutely terrible at marketing. Every time that I see how italians have managed to convince the world to consume their produces, I feel ashamed. And when we finally manage to get recognition, we can't meet the demand because we are not set up to deal with international demand.

I hope this trend continues and we find new, healthier ways to expand our economy.

I've heard this been mentioned before, but I entirely disagree. The more likely culprit is the 35 years of post-war Franco rule, it crippled Spain under a period when most global brands were being established. It's also no coincidence Zara was founded in 1975, now the world's largest apparel retailer.

At some point we'll have to stop blaming Franco for every problem we have. Yes, it was a time of isolationism that crippled us in many ways, but most of the people working today never lived through the worst of it. Even companies that were founded while Franco lived (or before) are now managed by a younger[0] crowd

In my (very personal) opinion, the fact that not many people, comparatively speaking, are fluent in any language other than the local languages and a certain level of short sightedness that makes us look only to local markets[1] has much more to do today than the dark ages of the dictatorship.

I moved out of Spain more than a decade ago and things seem to be changing (at least now I find spanish products in my local supermarket that I had to bring in my luggage before when I went for a visit), but we are late to the game and it will take time to catch up.

[0] Well, -ish

[1] Not exclusively a Spanish fault... Many countries suffer this to certain level.

I was explicitly referring to the topic at hand: Marketing abroad/International brands. What I described is undeniably one of the major reasons, if not the most important one. Most true global brands were established in the post-war period (Spain couldn't have participated in it that is).

Language barriers are a common issue for all our neighboring countries, more so in the past.

> most of the people working today never lived through the worst of it

You don't have to be around when the earthquake hits to live with its consequences. But sure, things are going somewhere, where exactly I'm not sure.

I suspect a lot of that success for Italy comes from exporting Italians - and then re-exporting Italian food via New York and Chicago, the homes of pizza.

For whatever reason there don't seem to have been nearly so many Iberian-Spanish immigrants, possibly they went to South America instead. Which has also been quite successful at exporting Spanish-language food..

True. In the past 2 weeks I have eaten Brazilian (not spanish, but south american), Argentine, Mexican, and Italian.

This is a good point. We associate Italian food w/ pizza and pasta but traditional Spanish food with...paella? Rioja wine? There's nothing for the common person to really grasp w/ Spanish food unless they go to some sort of overpriced tapas restaurant.

As a french I’m baffled by that. Italy and France have amazing marketting (ever been to eataly?) but spanish food is way tastier.

I don't know why you say that. I think Jamon Iberico is rated higher than Italian hams, but perhaps that's just an exception. The types Italian wines and food that are popular abroad might be more diverse compared to Spanish.

I'm always amazed by the quality, price and diversity of the food in Spain. One of the reasons I like skiing there.

My Greek colleagues say the same about Greece, and having visited our Athens office a few times, I agree with them! Greek olive oil, cheese, and wine easily rival anything from Italy, but people (in the UK at least) tend to know the big Italian brands. According to my colleague, the finest chocolates are made with Greek almonds too, but they are not known as a product in themselves.

I feel the same as Portuguese. Granted we just don't carry the weight of the likes of Spain/France/Italy. But we are just so bad at exporting, it's unreal. I live in the UK and it's common to see all sorts of wines and meats from southern European countries in the supermarkets. Portugal will have 1 or 2 bottles of wine, typically from vineyards owned by UK nationals in Portugal. Even our Port - which is world famous - It's always from UK owned vineyards.

Like the Ponte 25 de Abril vs Gold Gate case, is often used as an example of underselling, USA is so good at it, might be the movie's effect.

In Porto cellars we visited a few years ago, the hosts explained that all grapes come from the Duoro River Valley in these cellars (technically not in Porto city proper, but Villa Nova de Gaia on the south bank of the river). And Porto (the product) is manufactured only there. I understood that they do not batch it per vineyards.

Are there any distinguishing signs on the labels that show the particular grape source?

The grapes should ALL be from the same Douro region, I don't think you'll get much more information than that. My criticism towards Portugal's lack of export savviness is more to the fact that all brands I see abroad are typically non-Portuguese (Whereas you have to assume the vineyard belongs to a foreigner/company). Brands like Ferreira, Velhotes, etc are not commonly seen outside Portugal, on the other hand, common international brands are not typically consumed by the average person (lack of knowledge of said brands + higher price probably drives the Portuguese away)

Thanks for the clarification. My comment and question was for part of your comment: "Even our Port - which is world famous - It's always from UK owned vineyards." Reading it I thought the origin vineyard is stated, and this is how you know that it is always from UK owned vineyards. Perhaps I misinterpreted it.

I think you're right. Everybody knowns parmaham, but much less serranoham. While similar, the first is from Italy and the second from Spain.

Prosecco is a good example of that. At least in the UK, anyway. Many British people are absolutely obsessed with the stuff, to the point where it forms part of their identity (See [0]). The Prosecco industry have done an astonishingly good job of marketing it over the last 10 years or so.

I'm not a wine connoisseur, but when it comes to "cheap Champagne substitutes" I've always thought that Cava is basically just as good. And I'm aware that phrase will probably offend lovers of all three drinks!

[0] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=prosecco+wall+sign&iar=images&iax=...

Yep, for ex some olive oil branded as Italian is in fact Spanish [citation needed]

If you want high quality olive oil, your choices are either American or Spanish. Italian olive oil (at least, the exports) are garbage and probably 49% Not Olive Oil.

I bought Italian EVOO for the longest time (it's all most super markets carried), but never understood why so many people loved to eat it over pasta, or said you shouldn't fry with it. I always thought the flavor was kind of neutral and always pan-fried it without issue. Then I learned about the wide-spread fraud in the Italian EVOO market[0] and decided to pick up some expensive ($9 a cup) Californian EVOO.

The difference in flavor was so stark, like comparing a steak and an all-beef hot dog. Good EVOO has a wonderful, vibrant flavor. Now we eat pasta with just EVOO and cheese pretty often. I also discovered that when you stir fry with good EVOO, it will take on a bitter, burnt flavor.

[0]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393070212/ref=as_li_ss_tl...

The salient part was that it takes five acres per swine. They only have two hinds each... And they can only raise them in two areas of Spain. Seems production is pretty constrained by resources (in this case land with oak trees). That combined with 48-mo curing makes it hard to scale up.

And we used to complain about almond production consuming too many resources (water) per output...

Isn't lower density animal production a good thing?

Well, moderation, as they say. In this case vast amounts of land are used to produce little product. Not sure how efficient it is. It suffers from "scalability" which kinda results in scarcity and then perception.

I understand wanting free range --but this is an artificial diet constrained to grasses and acorns --swine usually are omnivorous and would eat more, but this ham requires only those two --so they must dedicate lots of land to each hog.

And isn't it otherwise just wild habitat?

People have strange priorities, or, to put it differently, people seem to not want any resources used for farming regardless of how it's used.

I wouldn't say it's an artificial diet - It's the natural diet for a swine living in the Mediterranean brushland

There's lots of ham on the market that's produced without letting the swine forage in the foods, and/or with brief curing. It's cheaper than the top-quality stuff, too.

Changing the production of the top-quality ham to match that of cheaper ham doesn't really solve anything. It just fools customers until they learn.

Well surface is not a big problem in Spain. Population density is relatively low.

It's only a matter of time before you start seeing ham cured in the same fashion but produced in other countries. US is now starting to have local production in Virginia and Texas (it takes between 2 and 3 years for a good leg of jamón to cure properly) and China is doing the same.

Spain might try to protect the trademark of "jamón ibérico" the same way that France protects Champagne but in the end, you'll be able to buy good jamón produced elsewhere the same way you can buy a good bottle of sparkling wine from Italy, Spain or California. There are a lot of acorn fields in the US, China and Korea so plenty of room for pigs to eat.

It's not a trademark, it's a designation of geographical origin. France doesn't "protect" Champagne - it's just that if you call something Champagne it has to be real Champagne - i.e. be made in Champagne, following the Champagne method. Just like Campana Mozza, Feta, etc.

It's as much for the consumer as it is for the producer. And there are rows of "Sparkling Wine according to the Champagne method" in French supermarkets, right next to the real stuff

> France doesn't "protect" Champagne

Oh, but they do. This goes a lot beyond simple geographical "truth in advertising", and is indeed a lot more similar to a trademark. As you mention, it's not enough for a wine to be produced in the region of Champagne to be allowed to be called Champagne, it has to be produced within very narrow parameters. Jamon Iberico is indeed protected, and again, there's quite a bit more going into this than ham produced on the Iberian peninsula. It's more pronounced with feta cheese, which does not have a geography in the name, yet have to be made in particular areas of Greece.

This is not to say this is bad, trademarks are generally a good thing, but let's not pretend there aren't strong protection-motives at play.

(As an aside, the process also sometimes backfires and inhibits innovation as in the case of "super-Tuscans", some fantastic wines produced in Tuscany, but not qualifying under the Chianti protection, and instead was released as table wine, ie. the lowest classification, while Chianti had languished as a profoundly mediocre product.)

Well yes they are narrow parameters - those are the parameters which define the product! I can't paint an apple red and call it a tomato... Same thing with Champagne. If it follows the definition of Champagne - made in Champagne following the Champagne method - it's Champagne. If not, it isn't.

Of course there are protection motives - but can you criticise the EU for ensuring that stalls aren't flooded with fakes? As a consumer I don't want to have to do extensive research on everything I buy - "Is this organic strawberry really organic?", "Are these Jersey Royals really from Jersey?", "Is this really Champagne?"

> France doesn't "protect" Champagne

They sure do. They bake regulations on the naming into foreign trade agreements

I'm sure the US wouldn't let me sell silver that is actually nickel either - it seems logical to insist that goods are labelled truthfully

We have a saying here in Spain: from swine, even the gait.

Yes, they only have two hinds each, but front legs are sold too (paletilla), papada (jowl), morro (snout), manitas (hoof), lengua (tongue), oreja (ears), various embutidos (cold meat) made traditionally stuffing meat and fat inside pork intestines (like chorizo, salchichón...)

And of course everything else that's traditionally edible anywhere in the world (loin, ribs, etc.) EDIT: except muslim countries of course.

;) even muslims enjoy pork. not every one of the millions of muslims worldwide is devout and follows all the rules ;) there's definitely niche markets in muslim countries

I know! I said traditionally.

> We have a saying here in Spain: from swine, even the gait.

The American version is “everything but the oink”

Oh, we eat the oink too! ;)

I live in Spain - a lot of jamon still in shops, prices are the same. Glad to see people of China love it, but there is no shortage of jamon, definitely.

But not all jamon is the same , apparently.

Not, alas, to my typical Northern English palette though.

No probably not, and I hope the name is protected so substandard mass produced stuff is clearly marked as such.

No, it's not. You're going to find it very hard to get Jamón Ibérico de Bellota outside Spain - from what I saw, they mostly export the jamón serrano. I'm pretty sure you can make the difference between the two - though, to be completely honest, it's not THAT big and I'm not sure it's worth the price difference.

You always have nice and expensive jamon iberico de bellota restaurants in France. It’s good! If you’re in Lyon there is one in les halles de bocuse

You can find it in some supermarkets too, at least in Paris. There is even a chain of stores named after bellota that mostly sells it (and a little caviar too): https://www.bellota-bellota.com/en/magasins

It is, indeed, an exceptional product. IMHO, nothing comes close (in that category of products).

Yes, but still: I buy jamon leg almost every week, it’s always Iberica, and I’m sure there is a lot of Iberica Bellota in shops. You are welcome to check it yourself :)

It's just another guardian clickbait. No shortage of that unfortunately.

Worth every penny -Spanish/Portuguese Iberico ham is sensational, melts in your mouth whilst bursting with flavour. As good as the best: Japanese Tuna Sashimi, Scottish grass fed Rib Eye steak, Iclandic Cod, US CheeseBurger, Bordeaux Wine, Thai Dom Yum Goong, Indian Tandori Chicken, Chineese Peeking Duck, Berlin Curryworst, Portuguese Custard Tart, Italian Margarita Pizza, French Butter Croissants or even Mcdonald’s French Fries!

Two Spanish brothers are trying to make their own jamón in Texas. Acornseekers.com

They must be aware that will run into geographical indication protection. Similarly to Italians making cheese all over Europe, but being unable to call it Parmesan.

So in the end, they can have a product that will taste very similarly, but they will have to sell them under different name.

The US isn't as strict as Europe when it comes to enforcing those sorts of rules. For example you can buy bottles of US made sparkling wine labeled "California Champagne" and various cheese like products labeled "Parmensan" that have never been anywhere near Italy.

As i understand it "Parmigiano Reggiano" is the protected term. Parmesan cheese is the whatever-product.

That might be true for the US, in the EU both Parmigiano Reggiano and Parmesan cheese are protected.

and Stilton, and a Melton Mowbray Pork Pie and a Gregg's sausage roll.

One of those things is not like the others ;-)

Quite true, Stilton is revolting

Worth every penny

Yes and no. Plenty of "good enough" Spanish/Portuguese Iberico ham is definitely worth it. The super high end stuff costing ~€100/kg that this article seems to largely be about I probably wouldn't consider "worth every penny" and I'd probably rather have twice as much ham costing 'only' €50/kg given a choice.

Have you tried bellota? It's very different from "simple" spanish ham, and, IMHO, well worth the extra price.

Berlin curryworst really :P?

Chinese reduced to the duck? Every province of china has an exceptional dish

Mcdonalds french fries rock though

This is actually good - we want China as integrated in the world economy as possible and we definitely want them to spend and open up to outside influences, including culinary. The world (and even China itself) doesn't need another Qing period.

It's nice to see China starting to import more - I got the impression for a long time that China was largely an export country (like a lot of electronics and such are made there). Should look up some figures before continuing to make such assumptions though.

edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China says China's the #1 exporter and #2 importer of goods in the world, so, never mind :p

It depends also what kind of goods they're importing. I'm far from an economic expert but importing processed goods probably creates stronger economic, social and political ties than importing raw goods.

In some way yes, but as soon as all these countries are dependent on China for export, China will have a dictating voice in many other areas.

This must be how the Peruvians felt when Western vegans ate all their quinoa https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/16/vegans...

This further emphasises the need to eat locally.

And that Guardian article was dispoven nonsense: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dont-worry-eating-...

The first time I visited Spain it was as a temporary launch-off point to get somewhere else. I ended up returning a short-time later for a 5 day visit just because the food was so good. I'm pretty much convinced that Spanish pork, cheeses and wine may be the best in the world. Italian cold cuts and French cheese and wine seem like very good efforts in comparison. (okay, I'm think there's a reasonable run-off between wines from Spain, Argentina and Chile for best)

I've spent years since then trying to even emulate the humble jamón bocadillo locally to no success. It's becoming something of an obsession.

It is already very expensive outside Spain. A similar, more affordable ham is Jamón Serrano.

Note that "serrano" is not as strictly protected as a term as ibérico, which needs to confirm to the rules of the Denominación de Origen [1]. Only a handful of serrano brands are D. O. (and will be clearly marked as such on the packaging), and the stuff sold in American supermarkets, for example, generally aren't among those brands. That doesn't mean that you can't find good, cheap "plain" serrano, of course.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denominaci%C3%B3n_de_Origen

Jamón Serrano does not have Spanish DO protection status but has an European agricultural protection status known as TSG.

This denomination establishes that the ingredients/materials and quality are subject to certain standard for that given product (but does not constrain the origin of the product).

For a product consumed in a regular basis rather than on special occasions this might be enough.

This is particularly interesting. Having tasted Iberico, I just realized on similarities between it and Yunnan Ham, which I grew up on. https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/mgx3b4/china-has-an-...

> But demand is now threatening to outstrip supply

Why isn’t the price being adjusted?

That's a very good question. When supply is limited and demand rises, you adjust the price accordingly.

Particularly for a luxury good... Something about this story doesn’t smell right.

There are different levels of quality in ham. From 40 to 700 euros for a ham (Spain prices)

The story literally talks, repeatedly, about how the Chinese demand is pushing up prices.

It is. It's literally the continuation of that sentence: "But demand is now threatening to outstrip supply, leaving Spaniards facing steep price rises in their most prized Christmas delicacy."

And in the third paragraph: "it is pushing up the price by as much as 10%".

And in the sixth: "It’s inevitable that the price in Spain is going to rise"

10% is not large, fruit prices in UK supermarkets seem to have risen by at least that this year.

Incidentally, anyone know of a project monitoring food price changes in UK for the major supermarkets?

This is a good thing for the Spanish economy at least - they can charge higher prices, increase production, export more, etc. Some new jobs, probably not that much, but hey. They'd rely less on European subsidies (iirc Spain received a lot of agricultural subsidies - mind you last time I heard this was like ten years ago, idk if that's still up to date)

> increase production

Maybe, but it's a risky bet.

It takes years to cure a leg of good jamón ibérico and China is buying more today, but also investing in curing its own using the same methods and pig breeds.

Same goes for the US. They now have serrano ham in Texas and Virginia, produced with the same breed of pigs used in Spain for ibérico. Only a matter of time before they start selling jamón "ibérico" made in the US.

We have a good one, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Njeguški_pršut

Hope the chinese doesn't get a taste of bitcoins.. oh wait..

No one HAS to sell to Chinese markets.

No idea what you mean.

No one needs to sell to Chinese markets for Chinese to buy the product. We are in the WTO, so a Chinese importer comes, buys at market price, and pays tariffs.

Exactly as western people buy things in the international market.

OP actually gets the point. Chinese consumers are not aware of those foods until very recently, and their interests are likely cultivated by the corresponding oversea industry intentionally.

So why blame China for the shortage when the western countries are the ones create the demand in the first place? I guess it is a convenient strategy to hike the price while swiftly shift the blame to something people already dislike, after all it fits the narrative.

It makes no sense. How would the "nice" export strategy look like? Market the product in the international channels but make sure no Chinese is aware of it? Or maybe do not put the product for export at all?

As said, we are in the WTO. Which means yes or no to exports. With good reason.

When you HAVE to pay your debts/working capital off you HAVE to sell as much as you can to whoever buys it and pays the most.

These type of comments really get me off. It is so ignorant of people who work under different circumstances than in tech.

I have nothing against them selling to the Chinese market, but it's not literally true that you HAVE to sell to whoever pays the most. The makers of Jamón Ibérico were paying their debts before the Chinese buyers came around, and they would keep doing so if they hadn't come.

Lots of individuals and companies also sell their products below the absolute maximum price they could charge.

Spanish ham is so so, I prefer Ukrainean

Spaniard sounds like some insult...

Someone is facing a ham shortage?

A shortage of one very specific, high end, type of ham, yes. Similar to "wagyu beef"...brand/status/scarcity.

Will this come to the United States? If so, we better get ready as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NC6iRwe9ns

It's a specific type of luxury ham produced in Spain (ergo the name "Iberian ham"). Since you didn't even know what this product was beforehand you have nothing to get ready for, it won't affect you.

Luxury ham? Now I'm getting it.

No esta hecho el jamón para el hocico del marrano...

Okay, then produce more.

I don't get these "shortage" news stories. The only way you get a prolonged shortage like this is if the supply is naturally limited (which it isn't, for all intents and purposes) or if it is artificially limited (which it might be). Either way, the shortage is not because of increased demand, but because of reduced supply and/or incorrect (or deliberately manipulative) pricing.

You do understand that can take 4 years to make a high-end certified ham? And Spaniards buy this ham for Christmas?

Sure, but they could just buy a half ham this year, or not buy ham, or pay more for it than Chinese people are willing to pay.

If some Spaniards go hamless this year, it will not be a tragedy, and it will be entirely in their power to correct. Christmas comes once a year, so prices are flexible for those who must have the hallowed ham.

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