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Comment by DanBC | Hacker News Reader

Current UK drinking guidelines are that you drink no more than 14 units per week.

750 ml of wine at 12% = 9 units per night. 9 * 5 = 45 units per week.

That's considerably more than the guidelines.

With excess drinking we tend to talk about problem drinking (drinking a bit too much); harmful drinking (drinking enough to cause harm, and you're certainly doing that) and dependent drinking (drinking enough to have a physical addiction).

It can be dangerous to -without supervision- stop drinking if you have a physical dependency.

Here's what you should expect from English treatment for alcohol misuse: https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115

Here's an interactive flowchart: https://pathways.nice.org.uk/pathways/alcohol-use-disorders/...

You need, and deserve, medical advice. Please go see a real professional.

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Hang on, I recall reading somewhere that the national guidelines for "acceptable" alcohol consumption are mostly made up and arbitrary? Or have they suddenly found a more scientific basis for them within the last few years? Don't they vary widely for nations with similar demographics?

I should say that I obviously agree that drinking alcohol is probably never the solution to any problems and may cause further (health or otherwise) problems, I'm just interested in the basis for this particular claim. Your comment was very valuable -- esp. with regard to how dangerous withdrawal symptoms can be.

Yes, the guidelines for safe amount of units per week are basically arbitrary and not based on anything scientific, and vary a lot by country. [1]

For example, where I am from, Canada, the Canada Low Risk Alcohol Drinking Guidelines state that men should limit their intake to 15 drinks per week, where a drink is defined as 12 oz of 5% beer, 5 oz of 12% wine, or 1.5 oz of 40% spirit.

OP would hardly be exceeding the guidelines if he was from Canada, and not exceeding the guidelines if he was from Fiji.

This is why merely looking at the guidelines is dumb instead of the many other visible factors (personal relationships, weight, athletic performance, academics, etc.)

[1] https://health.spectator.co.uk/the-great-alcohol-cover-up-ho...

[2] http://www.ccsa.ca/Resource%20Library/2012-Canada-Low-Risk-A...

OP is drinking well over the Canadian guidelines.

The canadian guidelines are about 240 ml of pure alcohol per week.

At 3 bottles of 12% wine Op is drinking about 270 ml of alcohol.

At 4 bottles of 14% wine op is drinking about 410 ml of alcohol.

Note Canada has higher than expected rates of alcohol related harm:http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/publications/global_alcoh...

It's public health, so they're talking about an entire population.

If a million people drink no more than 14 units per week we see this much cancer, fatty liver disease, cirrhosis, etc.

If a million people drink no more than 28 units a week we see this much more cancer, etc.

Translating these population level risks back to an individual is hard.

This doesn't mean the numbers are pulled out of thin air.

Don't forget there are many multi-billion dollar industries trying to make people drink more, and stop people drinking less.

Propability and statistics aren’t lost on me. I’m also aware of a movement in the medical association to target moderate use alcohol as a societal problem. Which is fine and good but comes off a bit hypocritical as they are the cause of the opioid crisis, and have been over prescribing antibiotics for decades. All pharmaceuticals have risks and they give them out like candy. 13% of the population is on antidepressants which have serious side effects. (And Which may or may not work, depending on who you ask.) and Tylenol also is responsible for 78,000 overdoses per year. 34,000 of which are considered critical.

Alcohol is an effective helpful drug and when used in moderation can help relieve stress, reduce headaches, induce euphoria, cause calming, and in some studies is good for your heart. Some chemo patents say it helps too.

Don’t drink to get drunk. Don’t drink every day.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/antidepressant-use-soars-65-per...

https://healthimpactnews.com/2013/tylenol-is-killing-america...

Edit: also I have yet to see anyone mention weight to alcohol consumption. If we are going to quantify safe conconsistant levels body weight should be a factor. It’s revealing that so many are doling out medical advice and judgement on on what is too much and no one has bothered to ask how much the OP weighs.

Edit:

Here's some advice from the English NHS on how to reduce alcohol use:www.nhs.uk/Livewell/alcohol/Pages/Tipsoncuttingdown.aspx

the problem of talking about addiction is that you can be causing severe harm well before you have a physical dependency.

Harmful drinking is over 14 UK units per week.

A hospital based medically supervised withdrawal will happen at maybe 20 or 40 units per day.

Obviously there's a big gap in between where harm is being caused but you don't yet qualify for hospital based detox.

Help for problem drinking can be hard to access, and the evidence base for some of them are not great.

But for this kind of harmful drinking it's important to get help to cut back now, before it develops into dependent drinking.

Some things you can try: only buy wine on one day a week. Start by only buying two bottles. Ration those out. Have a calendar, and mark out when you're going to drink alcohol.

Switch to lower ABV (alcohol by volume) wine.

750ml of 8% ABV wine is 6 UK units.

750ml of 12.5% ABV wine is 9.3 units.

You can find very low alcohol wines too.

There's a lot of chat on this thread about what quantity constitutes alcoholism. Certainly there is a recommended level above which it is likely to cause lasting harm, but another aspect is the psychological addiction, which can be screened for with the CAGE questionnaire:

  1. Have you ever felt you needed to Cut down on your drinking?
  2. Have people Annoyed you by criticizing your drinking?
  3. Have you ever felt Guilty about drinking?
  4. Have you ever felt you needed a drink first thing in the morning (Eye-opener) to steady your nerves or to get rid of a hangover?

Two 'yes' responses suggest it's worth considering whether you have alcoholism.

I think the fact that OP noticed he has a physical detriment due to his alcohol intake is strongly suggestive that he is drinking too much. Whether he has a 'problem' is whether he's willing to admit to himself that this level of alcohol is causing overall harm and reduce his intake.

I have an addiction to procrastination for similar reasons and to similar detriment.

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