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Comment by virgilp | Hacker News Reader

From the name, I'm guessing he's Romanian; it's not illegal here to have a contract that states "everything you create, even in the spare time, is the company's property, unless you get written manager approval first". I have exactly such a contract. And yes I know it would be illegal in the US.

(I'm not exactly sure how enforceable such a clause would really be, but that's another story, and I really understand him not wanting to take the risk)

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Actually, I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. That is the default for the US (see [1]) but I believe it's unenforceable in the EU.

[1] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr...

Nice link. I like Joel's writing. Haven't kept track of it in a while. The last para really rubbed me the wrong way ("sleeping with boss"). Most likely it was in jest but we need to have a zero tolerance to this kind of crap now (men and women).

Wait... you're offended by a non-gendered joke about the fact that interpersonal relationships in an office environment can impact the enforcement of contracts against you?

Do you just look for things to be offended by, or is there a particular reason?

The power of the witchhunt attracts a certain kind of creature.

You sound way more offended than the person you replied to. All I see up there is a harmless, well-intentioned critique with a perfectly civil tone. Meanwhile, you sound angry.

I haven't looked into it extensively, but I believe the EU has no laws about that. It's down to the individual countries, which have differing employment laws.

This similar in in Germany: It's not "everything is company property" but you need to ask permission to do "work" outside your employement, need to disclose if you create/"invent" something and allow the company to aquire your invention. Frankly, no idea how/if that will be enforced but something along these lines were in most contracted I had and it always made me feel uncomfortable.

I did some research about "work outside your employment" in Germany and found that the main thing is about the amount of hours one can (or is allowed) to work. The idea here was that working more than the "normal" 8 hours a day, would have a negative effect on the actual job, i.e. you're too tired to do your job properly if you work an additional 4 hours at home. In plain English, if you work additional hours daily on a side project, you'll be too tired the next day at work, hurting your productiveness (and upsetting your employer...). I did not find anything relating to weekends and/or to software created in one's spare time.

Are you aware of any specific laws concerning this whole thing?

If that's really true then I am glad I don't live there. Sounds like coporations want to own their workers completely. O_O

Surely that clause would still apply if he made 90% of the game while employed by the company?

Yes but my understanding is that he (claims to have) coded it all in one month. After resigning.

Quite honestly, it sounds hard, but not impossible. This is not WOW we're talking about.

US has similar contacts actually.

examples?

It's an old link, but here's Apple enforcing that against a developer who developed an app in their spare time, and Apple wanting to take ownership of the app & source code:

https://web.archive.org/web/20060316084454/http://www.thinks...

That app is competing with Apple's iTunes, so that seems more like a non-compete issue. I'd like to see an example of an employee developing something completely unrelated to his employer's business.

Well, this guy was working in the gaming industry...

It's quite common.

My last company required IP assignment of all works that were:

- created on company hardware or

- related to the business in which the company engages

...and that struck me as eminently reasonable as a default. My current company defaults to everything full stop. I'm pretty sure this is going to be the default for most knowledge work in any state that hasn't specifically ruled such provisions unenforceable.

Strange. My US colleagues were surprised I have this clause and said it would be blatantly illegal in California. Guess they were wrong :)

It depends on which U.S. state you're in.

This is normal, and unenforceable, almost everywhere.

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