The Lives of China’s Art Factory Workers | Hacker News Reader

The Lives of China’s Art Factory Workers

instapainting.com

109 pointschrischen37 comments

At the low end of the spectrum, thanks to this mass produced "art", it's almost impossible to find anything painted by local artists in places like Paris, unless you go for the galleries, and even though I'm not sure it's all legit.

People will literally pretend to paint in public places, but then you walk a few more blocks and the same half-done painting is being "painted" and the same "portfolio" is being offered. Even in places that are being billed as being for local artists only.

I really hope that we can someday return to quality and authenticity from just quantity.

Not that I know anything about the local art scene in tourist hotspots like Paris, but has it ever been different?

I strongly suspect this kind of hustle (like most tourist hustles) has been going on for a long time, it's just that now the paintings have been imported from China instead of being mass-painted on the cheap more locally.

According to wikipedia [1], the scam has been going on in some form since the early 2000's. No mention of France or Paris in the wikipedia article though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_student_scam

Basically the painting and home/hotel decor industry is no different than any other industry. Everything that requires hand labor is mass-produced in China, from Christmas decorations to assembly of iPhones.

It's just that with things like paintings, some people consider it special as art, but this just goes to show that nothing escapes the mass-production of China.

I think any prognosis here is dire. There’s no going back from where we are.

Sure there is. It all depends on what we, as society, value. So long as the market exists and is supported by enough people it continues. If society decides it no longer collectively finds a given market acceptable (not in the legal sense necessarily, as drug markets show, but as in willingness to pay and participate in), then the market collapses.

For the art scam, if people decide that generic keepsakes from tourist destination are no longer valuable, or send the wrong kind of social signal, that market will collapse.

Social change is possible, but I’d argue we have MUCH higher priorities in social change department over the fake art.

We have testimonies from factory owners and artists that well known galleries in Europe essentially just sell stuff made in China. In the best cases an artist there touches it up, in the worst cases someone there just gives it the "ok".

I don't know anything from painting and never thought about painting or buying paintings so I don't really have any context. Is the main antagonism against this phenomenon that:

a- It's not local? b- It's not one of a kind / unique? c- It's of lower artistic production quality? d- There's deceit?

From my rough uncultured perspective, if I ever somehow thought I wanted to decorate my home and went out to buy something, only (c) has any real meaning I'd think.

In other words, is it ok if I'm eating a banana from somewhere that can grow banana en masse rather than a banana grown in my backyard?

If not, are people mainly objecting to the fact that the mass produced bananas are inferior (and this is true more often than not) or is it because of other reasons.

Re supporting the arts: Methinks its about the story (narrative). Authenicity has its own value.

Source: My SO is establishing herself as a working artist.

Is it because authenticity leads to a better artistic production value or is authenticity an end to itself?

I hope I'm not being insensitive or flippant. I'm just hoping these discussions leads to some sort of insight or solution. It's definitely super educational for me.

In other words, if 2 actors are playing this super emotional scene with equal artistic expression and actor A can do it well because he deeply connects with the characters experience and channels his own life's pains and struggles through the expression and actor B can't relate at all with the character but just trained super hard to be able to play any sort of role, is actor B a less desirable path for people wanting to become an actor?

I realize it's a bit of a wonky analogy because the painter in this case is both the actor and the screenwriter. Just trying to figure out if self conviction is a means to an end or an end to itself.

I don't know. Maybe try something I do: First "cold read" the artwork, then learn about it, then look at it all again. I'm very amused when my appreciation of the artwork changes based on context, for better or worse.

It’s all personal values - I think people from a given place experience and see that place different from me when I visit. Therefore, being able to “see” that place or people in that place through their eyes is valuable to me. Unfortunately, I find it exceedingly difficult to cut through the clutter of the fake local art.

Not to mention that it is a sham, which is a morally objectionable thing to me.

This picture from an article in 2015 on the site, https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to... exemplifies the robotic like assembly line of some of these paintings.

Another interesting change that’s happening, that this article omits, is that artists/factories are able to reach customers directly on Alibaba/Amazon/Etsy. A few years it would have required visiting artists/factories Daifen to get things rolling. It’s a bummer to see the impact FAANG are having on startups... but in this case they may actually be helping poor artists keep a bigger share of the revenue.

Sites such as Instapainting.com / Paintyourlife.com (endless options/higher prices) / Oilbyhand.com (few options/lower prices) / pixeli.st (good UX) still have the advantage of focus and marketing (and customer support?), but the actual products they deliver are likely the same as you’d get directly from the artists.

Link to Alibaba search: https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product...

Actually Instapainting is the only one that operates more like Etsy. You're put directly in contact with the artist, studio, or China company with some guarantees made by Instapainting that you won't get screwed over.

Looks like they have some great painters in Daifen, and I am reminded of the oil portraits that the Mojang development team had commissioned several years ago for themselves [1].

1. https://twitter.com/notch/status/292254246756294656?lang=en

>If you’re coming from Hacker News, I appreciate an up-vote if you find this article interesting.

That doesn't seem like something we should encourage.

Nice marketo-move to push this up HN just before the holiday buying season to promote your company and boost sales.

Shhhh..... they've done this dozens of times here.

It seems to work. This same blog post was listed on HN two days ago. It got one upvote (might have been mine, I'm a sucker for articles on art, however obscure). The re-post has gotten 88 votes in seven hours.

We play around with the title to see what gets picked up.

They're pretty open about doing this: https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting (around halfway down the page, they discuss using HN as a kick start to going viral)

Are there any good sites for getting well done replicas of paintings by famous artists? I found a few great paintings I have bookmarked and I've been meaning to get a real oil-painted replica from China...

This is obviously a content-marketing post by instapainting and keeps linking back to it's own site (with interesting content none-the-less, there is value in this approach when they try like this). But I'm interested in finding one related more to the subject matter. Where they recreate the classics...

> Where they recreate the classics...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,433134,00.html

Your point? Are you suggesting the solution is we stop providing income for all artists in China so that things will get better for the subset that are abused? Or that I should pick my sites carefully?

> Southern China is the world's leading center for mass-produced works of art.

I mentioned China for this very reason.

Sorry, I misread your question. I was responding to the question where might you read more about these artists reproducing classic works, not where can you find sites to connect with these artists.

That was my first thought as well.

We use our special position in the industry to gain access inside. We also have this article that talked more about the factories: https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to...

This year's article focuses mostly on the art workers and their thoughts and opinions.

Fair enough, I noted there's nothing wrong with content marketing if the content is interesting, but my comment was about my interest in specific sites that sell these paintings. As I want to buy one. Rather than the factories that produce them. If you know any that would be helpful. Unless you also sell them? Thanks.

Several years ago, when I was working abroad in China, I saw an excellent exhibit at the Hong Kong Museum of Art that discussed the origins of the world of "Chinese export art." It's interesting to realize that what the article is describing has been around for quite some time.

Here are a few posts I found showing some of the more historical export art:

https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/chinese-ex...

https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/first-stag...

https://dreaminhkbubbles.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/details-sh...

Could it be that some of these painters might become the Rembrandts of the future?

I mean, in Rembrandt's time, painters painted on commission and their paintings weren't nearly as valuable as they are today. Back then, what they we're doing was pretty much craft, not art per-se.

Of course, not all painters from Rembrandt time became huge sellers in the future...

Is there still a market for Rembrandts today? This type of high volume work might not provide the large amounts of time it would take to be a great artist.

I'm curious if this type of art is similar to journalism where the market dynamics have changed. Art is still very popular of course but to get the genius 1% you need a wide swatch of artists and I'd imagine this used to be a far more popular painting in Europe back when the classic painters were dominating.

That seems completely different type of work. There are still artists today that paint mural and commissioned art, but that work is usually more or less unique and is not cheap. It also includes artistic expression.

Not so sure there is room for artistic expression when you are mass producing copies and are paid for the copying process and not creativity.

Artistic skill itself has become commoditized, it's all about the brand. The key to fame/high valuations in all marketing and building a following. If you have two artists that can create the same works, one could charge $20k and the other couldn't charge $200 if they don't have a name for themselves (and previous buyers). It seems like the big disadvantage these Chinese artists have is not so much skill as marketability.

Absolutely, although they may not be recognized as such until after their death.

Another industry waiting to be disrupted by a combination of robots & AI, so these paintings can be produced automatically every corner of the globe.

Actually this would make a pretty good YC submission.

We got that already: https://www.instapainting.com/blog/research/2015/09/10/robot...

There is a documentary on this subject, named "China's Van Goghs".

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