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Comment by ChuckMcM | Hacker News Reader

The answer is pretty reasonable in the Quora post (Answer: no). In my experience, people who get something more out writing software than a salary tend to stay in software development, at some level, for their entire career.

That said, if you're a software developer and you're also good at communicating and managing people, seriously consider moving into management. While I think the stories of the '10x' developer are true, I also think a good manager can double or quadruple the effectiveness of their entire team. That has a huge impact both on the careers of the people being managed, and at the company.

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I also think a good manager can double or quadruple the effectiveness of their entire team

Another way of thinking about this: Managing people really well is really hard. Most managers are not the best managers. Average managers often end up doing things that reduce the output of their group in the interest of things not going horribly wrong. The Pareto distribution rears its ugly head, once again.

I wish I had more than one upvote. If you have no management experience, and no mentorship in managing, you have no business managing people. Managing requires empathy and a desire to help your subordinates level up, not SWE skills. Your job is to deliver value to the org and to your individual contributors in equal parts.

At least as a software developer, you're only breaking code. But you start affecting people's lives, emotional well being, and career paths when you're a manager, and I find it rare where a manager understands this.

This is a big problem in startups. Developers with very little to nothing of not only management experience but even development experience become VPofE/Directors/CTOs and wreak psychological havoc on people they are supposed to manage. Sometimes they do it on purpose because of insecurities or many times just unintentionally.

Usually the bigger problem there isn't as much the individuals, but why the startup needed that role to begin with.

A lot of times early companies will go through the motions of, "needing" a VP of Engineering, or CTO, or whatever. In reality their process does not need that, and those roles are either meaningless titles at best or cause unnecessary process to crop up and hinder productivity.

How about team lead?

Team lead is acceptable as it's more of a servant leadership relationship, and under the right circumstances, a team lead should be able to grow into a full blown manager role.

I am a big fan of 'trying out' future managers in the team leader role.

This perfectly articulates something I tried to get across to upper management last time we hired a manager for our team. It seems so obvious and reasonable, but they wouldn't hear it. So, we ended up hiring someone who not only had no real management experience but who also didn't particularly _want_ to be a manager, instead preferring to write code.

This created conflict exactly as you'd expect and team morale fell apart, projects slipped, etc. Of course, management takes no responsibility for this, instead diffusing blame to employees via suck-it-up type platitudes (couched in "nicer" language but with that essential meaning).

Senior developers don't just write code. They know how to get other people to write code and frame problems in a way that they can be implemented within whatever organization employs them. Many companies value these talents quite highly. They are not that different from the skills that characterize great managers.

When I worked at Microsoft, I asked my dev manager why he took such a boring (as perceived by me) job. He said that he'd peaked at how productive he could be personally, and the only way he could improve was to scale out...

A good manager is really, really hard to find. Good developers are easy to find (relative to good managers). So, while I don't want to get into management, I also recommend it to anyone who might have potential in that regard.

I don't know man. Middle management is a really shitty job. You have to do stuff that you don't believe in (because upper management says so, and they _might_ be right, even if every fiber in your body tells you they're wrong). As a dev, even as a very senior dev - I find that it's ok to be true to yourself, and say that you don't believe in it even if you have to do it. You can also easily switch teams. As a manager - you _have to_ be positive and sell it to your subordinates, who may be (should be!) your friends too. If you don't sell the vision well, there's no real way to know whether it failed because it really was a bad idea, or it failed because you didn't motivate your team to work on it.

This, I found, is too much for me. I have no remorse if I demotivate my managers; and I can keep my mouth shut and not say anything, to avoid demotivating my junior-dev colleagues. But as a manager, "keeping my mouth shut" is not an option.

Why, though? I mean, you’re looking at the best case scenario: developer turning manager boosts productivity of company X.

But what’s in it for the developer? If the developers is happy and well-compensated bad has no managerial/executive ambitions/fantasies, why ruin a good thing (with a gamble, at that)?

Then don't. GP said "seriously consider moving", not "move". Presumably the developer would do it if they value potential impact over the risk.

Isn’t it a big loss to move into management when one loves to code?

Personally, I loved to code, but management has been much more fulfilling for me. Helping my team grow, professionally and personally, is a hugely rewarding experience. I still get to exercise some problem solving skills (though I let my developers make the technical decisions) and I still help craft a great user experience, which were my favorite parts of being a developer anyway.

Once you know how to code really well shouldn't you be in a position to manage developers and ensure that they're doing a really good job at writing code? You'll be able to help them tackle bigger problems, work on more ambitious solutions, than they could if you're stuck cranking out code with no time to assist.

If it's your job to magnify the output of your developers, when you know intimately how to do their job, you can get spectacular results.

Non-technical managers can't do this, they don't have the depth and insight to help shape their team the same way a developer does.

In my experience it depends on what you love about coding. I happen to really like systems, and building a good team is much like building a resilient system in code. Each piece supports the others.

But it is not a good idea if you really are passionate about the writing. For example, my daughter majored in English because she wants to write novels, not because she wants to teach English. So in her case I certainly wouldn't tell her to go get a job as an English teacher.

In my opinion, the second worst kind of manager is one that doesn't want to be a manager and would rather stay an individual contributor. Their inner conflict is harmful to the group.

I would agree with that, particularly if you totally abandon programming. But management skills are useful as you continue your programming career and development.

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