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Don't forget non-compete agreements - valid in NY, invalid in CA. So not only can you NOT leave your day job for a startup, you typically have to wait 2 (or more) years before being able to freely work on any projects. (If your start up is in a completely different area than your day-job, you may be able to get away with it sooner. But don't think that corporations are lax about enforcing the non-compete you signed.)

"So not only can you NOT leave your day job for a startup, you typically have to wait 2 (or more) years before being able to freely work on any projects."

If this is true then how does moving job generally work in NYC? Presumably people there aren't expected to work for one employer all their life or take years off in between jobs?

Perhaps they move out of NYC to a state that doesn't enforce non-competes for years, and then possibly move back.

These clauses are only enforced when it's an easy win for the litigator - for example, key employees going to a direct rival or a startup with no legal budget.

That makes sense.

I call bollocks. I don't doubt that companies make these silly agreements, I don't doubt that companies actually try to enforce them, and I don't doubt that employees cave in thinking they have no options.

What I doubt is that if a company tried to enforce one of these ridiculous agreements that it would hold up in court. Are you trying to tell me that if I work in networking for a new york company I can't get another job for 2 years? That's just not possible.

If you have a job in NYC, by default everything you create belongs to your employer.

Only work you've done in the course of your employment is owned by your employer, by default. This can be modified by contract, however.

CA does not enforce some contracts while NY does, but the default is that you own all your after-hours work.

What you said is federal law. But what my lawyer told me when I lived in NY is that "in the course of your employment" has non-intuitive consequences.

What I was told is that there are 3 classes of employee. If you punch in and out on a clock and get paid by the hour, you are hourly. If your work is governed by piecework contracts, you are a contractor. In those cases the scope of your employment is clear. Otherwise you're a professional employee. (Most programmers are professional employees.) For professional employees there are no working hours, and no non-working hours either. Have a good idea in the shower? Your employer has a potential claim on it.

Whether they can claim any given project is more complex, though. The farther away your activity is from your day job, the harder it is for them to enforce a claim. So, for instance, a programmer who writes programs on the side is likely in trouble. But a novel on the side is fine.

In any case the default doesn't matter that much in practice because standard boilerplate contracts reinforce this by making broad claims that anything you do in your own time belongs to your employer. And NY courts are fairly generous to employers in resolving any disputes that arise.

You could be right if NY has a law more strict than federal law. Do you have information on this?

Email sent with what little information I have.

I view it similar to apartments that don't explicitly state 'no pets'. If you're not hoarding pets or using company related IP, odds are good you're in the clear.

For source, see http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab...

That link has no bearing on NY state law.

As an intern who works in a Web Company in nyc, I can attest to the claim of above comment. My agreement with my employer even for an internship had this clear clause.

Do you have any references for this? (speaking as a NYC-based employee with various side projects)

Sorry, I don't have the appropriate statute in front of me. Merely memory from discussions some 8 years ago. If you wish to know more, I strongly recommend talking with a competent lawyer.

Also note that there are a lot of caveats where details of your specific situation could make you fine. (Or not.)

I have California, not NY: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab...

If I'm not mistaken, Massachusetts is more like California in that respect. That might be one reason Boston is better than NYC for tech.

Well, MIT & Harvard don't hurt...

They gather the brains, yes. But a feudal business culture would make that irrelevant. Feudal social contracts in general kill all forms of innovation.

>Even if it was done at home on your equipment.

Have any examples of this actually being enforced (in court. I'm sure they've scared people with lawyer-ese before)? It's hard to image that the law basically says that the company owns you even if you're not "on the clock".

This is garbage. California does this as much as NYC.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab... offers significant protection to employees in California. There is nothing in NY law that offers similar protection.

That is actually a great point. When was this law made?

Also, this only protects people who are aware of it and willing to fight for it

I do not know when the law was made. But the text of section 2872 at the bottom of that page suggests it was somewhere around 1980.

Interestingly, I met many people in SF who had signed contracts that disagree with this law.

Both Bay Area companies I've worked for include California 2870-2872 with their new employment packs, right behind the NDA.

One anecdote for another. I'll take it.

That is required by 2872.

That's OK, the law takes priority anyways.

I was alarmed to discover the same a few times -- the contract had wide claims on IP, and then there was a separate part which said "of course, these are the enforceable limits according to this particular California law."

It seemed like they were pulling a fast one, but basically they were compartmentalizing so they could claim the maximum rights should the law be struck down or repealed (or the business moved outside California, I guess).