Silicon Valley thinks it invented roommates. They call it 'co-living'
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
Hey, let's not stigmatize the upper middle class actually hiring people to do worthwhile work. That's how jobs, small businesses, and economic growth happen.
> As was quickly pointed out by numerous people this is basically a “bus”. Just, you know, without the poor people.
Likewise, this is a good idea. People sharing rides in smaller buses that can service different routes is good. Public bus systems should really be exploring a smaller vehicle model more. It gets everyone where they need to go with fewer cars (and therefore pollution and traffic).
I asked someone from my local bus service once. Their answer was that it's not economically viable for the public bus service, as the only major saving was fuel cost and the extra services don't provide enough revenue to offset the employee cost (otherwise they could service it with the large normal busses).
So basically this becomes viable with increased ticket prices or self-driving busses. The technology isn't quite there yet for the latter, and governments don't like price differentiation in bus lines.
* Maintenance cost per line might go slightly down, but apparantly overal it's more expensive because they need to maintain technicians and parts for more models.
Well, some startups think they can make it viable. Either they can or can't, but making fun of them for reinventing "buses" isn't going to help.
Likely any company in this space is looking to as many users as possible while breaking even, banking on self-driving tech developing in the meantime. When the vans drive themselves, the economics will change drastically.
The fact that I'm arguing this on HN of all places makes me wonder what happened to the attitudes of hackers, geeks, and entrepreneurs. Let people do something dumb and fail. It's OK to do that sometimes. If it's dumb, don't invest in it.
1. Something between taxis and buses could theoretically be viable.
2. Many cities already have rush hour fees on public transportation (or equivalently discounts for off-peak passes) so some price differentiation in bus lines seems possible.
I have never seen that anywhere in Europe or Canada, does that mean there are two different tickets with different prices, and you have to have both if don't know exactly when you're going to take your bus?
Also, I wonder how it works with a monthly or yearly pass.
https://www.metrotransit.org/fares-passes
has rush hours surcharge for most buses and light rail as well as more expensive express buses.
It's also common on the trains, where most have a peak price (usually only in the morning).
For season tickets (monthly, yearly), all fares are usually included (i.e. your pass allows you to travel any time, very rare to find an "off peak only" seasonal pass, although some people, like OAPs have them).
And yeah, to answer GP I had forgotten that London has such a system that makes it quite easy to implement different fares for off-peak travel, I'm more used to places with fixed fares.
Very common in South America, it's called collectivo and it's awesome. It's basically very inexpensive, shared taxis that have pre-determined routes. But you can talk to the driver and he might go off his route a bit if it's not too inconvenient.
There's a huge number of dollar van systems all around the world, they're usually profitable, sometimes profitable enough to wage wars against competitors.
Public buses: Big, amenities, lose public money. Private minibuses: Small, rough, earn profit.
Moreover, they can totally turn the table with regards of quality of life. Village where my granma lived had a bus from the city maybe once per for hours. Now it has some bus still, but also a minibus every 15 minutes! That's a game changer.
It's easy to earn a profit when you don't pay taxes or have to worry about liability insurance.
UPD: But yes, they do have some paperwork. Its relevance is open to the debate. However, same applies to any paper coming out of public bus system.
Regulation also costs society money, indirectly taken from your wallet. You spend a lot of money without even solving a problem, because there's no certificate for honest person.
I would say, regulation costs 10x of cleaning up afterwards, which you still have to do. I would wait for the first offence if it was me.
If anything, driver of private vehicle cares more about their vehicle, it being private. Who cares for public ones?
That's how it starts. But then one bus driver figures that if he gets together a loan, he's able to buy a bunch of buses and hire a bunch of drivers and scale up his income.
Next thing you know, he's trying to evade liability when one of his dodgy buses has an accident, or he's trying to avoid repaying the loan, or he's cheaping out on driver skill. If the whole house of cards falls down, he sets up another shell company via a relative, transfers the assets across via a sale, and continues on his merry way.
The private bus owner with the well-maintained bus goes out of business because the he's outcompeted by the scale efficiencies of the fly by night operator.
Other than that, you could write same things about bakeries and not buses. But we still have a lot of inexpensive private bakeries around.
(I would also describe the minibus as poorly maintained, but that’s by European standards — I was really surprised by the poor condition of American vehicles on each of my three visits, and it didn’t seem significantly worse than an American vehicle).
If this jitneys are really worse, there is no need to forbid them, municipal buses will outcompete jitneys.
For example, someone can undercut you on price by taking risky shortcuts. Therefore your product or service won't sell, but as a society, it's better for everyone that certain standards are met. Hence, regulations on electrical work and plumbing, etc. Same thing with driver's training and sleep minimums.
Real life example is the recent bus crashes in New York City from overworked or underpaid Chinatown buses.
No, but it will get there so proving the business model/market demand now then buying the tech when it's ready might be worth a vc investing in.
Back in early nineties in Russia, when the public transport system ceased to exist in almost all second tier cities and below. People were relying in people driving on mini-van taxis that were driving "approximate routes" where the driver was changing his route at will to get more passengers.
You was signalling to the driver by hand to be picked up, telling where you go, and he will tell if his current route passes by that place.
1 - https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Isuzu_Elf_Route-va...
Not a St.Petersburg citizen though, maybe they managed it right way from the start, but these minibuses appeared long since SU (assuming we’re talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZelle ). Transporting system of SU was a thing that I really hated in my partially soviet childhood. “Let’s go to ...” was one of worst things I could hear.
It should be at least a little stigmatized. Having upper middle class people be able to afford lots of labor intensive services is a sign of an unhealthy society with too large an income gap.
As a developed economy, much fewer people can afford house keepers in the USA. Our cleaning tech is better to compensate.
Also cleaning houses is great work for responsible teenagers. They don't have to pay mortgages or anything.
Getting well off people to spend is a great way to spread that wealth around. Especially when the money is going to sole proprietors and small businesses, as is typically the case for housekeeping, landscaping, etc.
TriMet (Portland, OR) which has a modern mixed bus/light-rail system gets only 20% of expenses from fairs (http://trimet.org/budget/pdf/2018-adopted-budget.pdf)
That is with charging $5/day capped at $100/month, so if fares were to cover the entire cost, the cost would be $500/month.
So, public transit provides a bare bones, horribly uncomfortable, and inconvenient transit experience, at a cost that is only slightly lower than a car.
And public transit systems are too inefficient to operate outside of high traffic hours at all.
If someone in tech can figure out how to offer a shared transit system that people will actually pay for without being forced to that would be a major innovation. No public transit system has ever done it.
Wow. Ever? In the history of mankind or just in modern history? Please elaborate, preferably at book length.
I do wish that public transit were nicer & cleaner. Something like PRT sounds just about perfect.
Unions. This will have to wait for self-driving buses, though even then deployment is unlikely.
[1] https://nypost.com/2016/03/13/nycs-highest-paid-bus-driver-d...
I've seen this in Russia and Turkey and it works pretty well. My wife's city (small, distant from Moscow) has a few routes and I don't think we ever waited more than 5 minutes for a bus.
Implicit Nirvana fallacy. Yes, ridesharing is worse for society then using (and voting to improve) traditional public transportation. But it's still much better than the popular default of each person owning and solo driving a car, which sits idle most of the time taking up valuable urban space.
She's arguing against the over-the-top marketing for something entirely ordinary. "We will revolutionise transport with this new invention" instead of "we started a bus route".
now thats a good idea. Given the societal trends, it's something i 'd invest in.
I'd love to live in a living space like a mess if I wasn't married.
I've always thought that a mess for politicians would be a good solution to the parliamentary expenses problems in the UK as well. Could build a mess for the politicians in Westminster where they can all stay. Could be nicely appointed but efficient as they're all together.
Gated communities are a very bad sign; outside the US, they are usually found in places where income is very unequal, crime is high, taxes low and public services of very bad quality or inexistent.
It doesn't have to be like this. In fact, a more balanced society improves the lifestyle of everyone, including those who make more (and end up paying more taxes).
Before I'm asked "citation needed", try and imagine which societies I am thinking of.
Nuclear families seem to be empirically less poverty-prone than other family arrangements. And there seem to be higher order effects to the success of entire communities when there are relatively fewer nuclear families in the neighborhood.
Do you mean as opposed to singles or to extended families? In either case, I'd be interested in a source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#P...
https://www.ssa.gov/retirementpolicy/fact-sheets/marital-sta...
Marriage is mostly a "capital" redistribution system and with strong public services (ie shared services) there is much less need to focus on the nuclear family as a protection (sharing of ressources) network.
Ex. When a few years back pension laws changed in Japan and housewives got the right to get a pension separately from their husband, the rate of divorce boomed.
There is nothing in the nuclear family that makes in a natural fit to what humans are as social animals.
I know where I live, in NL, there's a few scenarios. One, some people just remain students for ten years until their early 30's, living in student houses like this for that whole time. At least this used to be the case until the government cracked down on scholarships. I don't know if this type appears in the US, I can imagine with university being a lot more expensive year over year it's not that bad.
Another thing, and this goes for me, is that if you're out of school, especially in the city area, it's very hard to find a house. There's social rental which is the affordable rental apartments, but there's a 10+ year waiting list for that - that is, your parents would have had to sign you up for it when you were still a kid. If that's even possible. Then there's the free market, which is more like student houses and such. I've had to do the latter for... I think 8 years, at the end of my education and the first seven or so years of my career until I earned enough to be able to buy a house. (that + other factors, mind you; I think I could've bought a cheap apartment much earlier if I wanted to. Wasn't sure about buying yet 5-6 years ago).
erm, anyway. I think there's some merit to this, give the benefits of shared living but add the comforts of adulthood and working for a living (maintained shared spaces, privacy, etc) and there might be something there, especially in areas where housing is expensive and/or space is limited and/or people don't live in the same spot for more than two years.
The problem is zoning.
The problem is democracy.
The problem is people.
You are correct, however, that the author is being deliberately uncharitable, which, I believe, Silicon Valley calls "snark."
This is how a huge portion of Chinese youth lives.
Those places are called ant colonies in urban slang. Your experience there can range from good to horrid if you rent in such places.
Landlords of such places can be anybody from random uncle Liao, to proper property companies.
The company in the article "the Collective" has almost certainly copied the approach of bigger Chinese property companies.
I do agree that the SV take on the concept has a nasty VC-fund-ishness to it. Co-living environments should be democratic and cooperative, not run like a startup.
I rented in youplus for 1 month. It was decent, but for a little more you can already rent a room, (which however will not be anywhere near as fancy in Shenzhen)
It's called a library.
In general I’d tend to agree that public transit in the US would benefit from sparser stop placement. I’d also offset the loss of accessibility with more investment in paratransit service / reimbursement for accessible taxis. On that basis, I’d get rid of wheelchair lifts on busses, due to the inefficiencies of loading and unloading. But again, that loss of accessibility would need to be totally offset by paratransit / taxi provision.
Honestly, this got me thinking. There are so many things that in fact, SI just re-invent, but .. don't sort of get .. the re-invention.
Is this not just 'the thing' about SI? That all human activities can be computerised. So, its not about 'inventing', but rather 'optimising through computerisation'?