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Comment by analog31 | Hacker News Reader

I'd add Texas Instruments, with their graphing calculators. They have an extremely low tech product whose prevalence actually detracts from kids learning to make effective use of computation. But they've established a monopoly position by understanding what real problems they're actually solving: 1) Moderating development to within a pace that teachers and the curriculum / testing industry can keep up with. 2) Keeping cheating under control.

Disclosure: I have two kids in high school, both of whom need graphing calculators for their schoolwork. Both would prefer to use Python/Jupyter.

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I got all the way through high school (AP calculus, etc., high school class of 2004) and through lots of technical courses in college without ever needing a graphing calculator, except once during the AP exam, and possibly once for an in-class exam, for which I could borrow one from the school (the rest of the time I just had a $5 used “scientific calculator” but a slide rule would have been just fine, and in college a laptop with real programming languages on it). Learning arcane features of the calculator’s function is not really necessary for the AP exam and is a waste of time, but I would recommend spending a couple hours familiarizing oneself with the basic features before the exam.

Students and parents are often fed a misleading impression of what tools they will actually need to work through a course, and pressured to buy calculators that are not necessary, preying on their desire to succeed at school. I think I was the only student in the class with enough moral outrage about TI’s calculator scam to try such a thing, but my impression was that it really had no practical consequences, except for me spending a lot less time than the other students playing low-quality snake, brickout, and tetris clones.

The real fun came from writing those low-quality clones :)

It could even be relevant: I used the projectile equations from Physics class for my Artillery clone.

Not that there’s anything inherently wrong with writing code in Basic or Z80 assembly language, for a very limited device with no proper keyboard, 24K of user-accessible memory, a 96x64 pixel 1-bit display, and no other sensors or output devices, but I’m pretty sure the time could be spent more effectively in some other programming environment.

When I was in grade school, 20+ years ago, TI calculators were legitimately an impressive high-tech product. (and in some classes or for some quizes, you weren't _allowed_ to use them). They... haven't changed too too much since then. Somehow TI got from there to here, maintaining market success the whole time, but completely changing in how they fit in the environment somehow. Odd.

I remember in high school, TI-83 graphing calculators were just being mandated to be used in classrooms. All students were required to buy one. No idea what happened with students who weren't able to afford one, they weren't cheap in my high school mind. I do remember being annoyed because I couldn't see how buying the TI-83 helped me to learn algebra or anything else better. But we all enjoyed playing Tetris on the darn things....

We all complained about the TI-83 being a prime example of school boards being clueless and putting technology in the classroom for technology's sake.

I was in the required but too poor group. I had to borrow others or do the work by hand. I eventually was able to get gifted one from one of those "help families in poverty with school supplies" donation drives. I had those books with tables of logarithms and one other one constantly checked out from the public library just so I could do my homework.

A calculator that can handle logarithms and trigonometric functions can be had for a few dollars second-hand (on ebay I see some for $3.50 with free shipping). Slide rules can be found at yard sales and flea markets for next to nothing.

16 year old me had no clue, no help from parents or other adults and teachers that disallowed all calculators that weren't the required ones. I learned about they books of tables from an old man who helped me withmy homework I was doing at the public library, it's likely the only way he knew how. Not to mention, my main source of food during this time was the free school lunches and I was working 3rd shift to help pay rent and utilities, $5 was a lot of money (to us at least, this would have been mid 90s).

Yeah, fair enough. TI has a very effective racket going, and a lot of people and institutions have bought into it wholesale, and the main marks are uninformed and easily pressured students and parents who think it will help lead to success.

Sorry to hear about your tough financial situation in the past. It’s a tragedy that kids go hungry in such a rich country. If an expensive calculator is going to be mandated in school, there should be financial aid available for it.

Slide rules Log tables and later on steam tables that takes me back I was probably in one of the last cohorts that used slide rules at school

Do they use Python for their homework?

I'm a math teacher and a programmer, and I can't wait to see the end of the TI dominance in education. I would happily let students in my classes use Python/ Jupyter for most of their work, and use calculators as needed to get ready for any tests that require their use.

They don't. It's strictly recreational. Right now one is in 2nd year calculus, and the other is in "Algebra 2 and trig." There is little or no use of computation in their classes, perhaps because it's so cumbersome. When there is any computation, there is an emphasis on the graphing calculators because they're allowed by the standardized tests, and the teacher is familiar with them. The Algebra teacher even stipulates that he can only work with TI calculators, not Casio.

I think there are a couple of broader issues here. First of all, I'd like to see more of what I call computation for lack of a better term, in the K-12 math curriculum. This isn't for turning people into professional programmers, but because computation has had a huge influence on how people do both practical and theoretical math. Thus, a computation-free K-12 curriculum misrepresents what math is.

Of course the other issue is teacher training, and standardized testing. Changing the curriculum requires changes to both teacher training and the tests. If it's not on the test, then it can't be taught. Remember proofs in geometry? Gone.

Have you looked at GeoGebra?

https://www.geogebra.org/?lang=en

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