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Comment by Tech-Noir | Hacker News Reader

> Judge [Louis CK’s] apology/non apology anyway you like, at least he ended it decisively, instead of propagating it for enternity by sowing doubt.

What are you talking about? It was "ended" by the NYT publishing, in this current Weinstein/Spacey climate, an article about his offences[1] and leaving him absolutely no other choice but to finally come clean.

He was publicly painting his victims as liars (which you quite rightly condemn in your second paragraph) as recently as a couple of months ago[2]:

    NYT: So [the accusations are] not real?

    CK: “No. They’re rumors, that’s all that is.”

Even now, not only does he not apologise, he tries to excuse his completely inexcusable behaviour by trying to pretend he thought it was even remotely acceptable.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/arts/television/louis-ck-...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/11/movies/louis-ck-rumors-wo...

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That’s the whole point, they don’t have to ever admit it, regardless of the publicity, short of hidden camera footage.

The huge problem is, that even when it’s damning enough that 99% of people call bullshit, their denial will continue to cause great pain and make it difficult for other people to get justice in the future.

In a perfect world they wouldn’t have committed the crimes in the first place, but it’s a relative scale, and having an uncontested documented case is a bigger win over a denial, than having a good apology is over a bad/non apology.

> having an uncontested documented case is a bigger win over a denial

I agree. The mistake is crediting that to CK ("at least he...") when in the wake of an article as damning as the one in the NYT, in the current climate where the story was not going to go away, as before, he had absolutely no other option than admit it.

> That’s the whole point, they don’t have to ever admit it, regardless of the publicity, short of hidden camera footage.

I think that was true before (pre-Weinstein), and will unfortunately probably become true again, but right now there is too much attention being paid to showbiz abuse/harrassment for someone to get away with ignoring/denying truthful allegations against them.

That article said that CK emailed and apologized to many of the women years earlier. The only ones he seemingly didn’t were the two in the hotel room which, according to other sources, agreed to let CK do it. Maybe they thought he was joking but he may not have realized they weren’t okay with it.

The power dynamic is the issue. Can you truly consent to something sexual coming from someone who can end your livelihood?

I understand the rationale behind thinking "oh they should just have just gotten up and walked away" but it makes me sick to my stomach to justify sexual harassment at all PERIOD.

I am sickened by CK's actions. However I am equally as sickened that the conversation is focused on louis ck, who certainly deserves to lose his career, but in my opinion indecent exposure is no where near as traumatizing a crime as forcible rape.

It just screams limited hangout where the big wigs make the new money pervert take the fall in order to take the heat off them.

This is what I’m referring to. Your sickening, the the other media outlets critical of CKs response is lost energy that could otherwise better be used against the problem.

You assume discussions are driven by who to focus on, when they are driven by understanding and figuring out the best way forward for healing and justice weighing all variables.

It’s natual to be angry, there’s nothing wrong with it, please carry on with doing it. However I’m asking we separate that anger from discussions of any lessons, priories, strategies, conclusions we can learn from any of this if it has a chance of improving perspective in the long run.

Critical analysis is different from grieving and empathy, and very hard to mix. I’m sure I probably couldn’t separate them if I were a victim or someone close to me was.

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