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Comment by petercooper | Hacker News Reader

I feel like the odd one out. I buy a new MBP every 12-18 months (have owned all Intel generations), use my MBP for hours every day, and think the latest is by far the best.

Being able to charge on either side is a big deal for me as I move around a lot, plus being able to use 30W USB-C power packs and third party chargers (e.g. Anker) without fear of fire.. a massive boon for me, especially as my phone and Nintendo Switch work on the same cables. USB-C cables fall out with little tension so have had no pre-MagSafe style accidents so far.

The touchpad is better than my 2016, the touchbar is almost pointless to me but no worse in operation, and it runs way cooler and quieter - the past two generations used to burn my legs and were noisy. The only downsides are reduced battery life (not a big issue to me) and the keyboard. I like the reduced travel, but it can "clog".. if they fix that, I prefer its design overall.

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> I feel like the odd one out.

You're not. I have the late 2016 model. It replaced my ~2013-2014 model and I consider it an improvement.

The Touch Bar / touch-id is a (mostly irrelevant) improvement over a row of keys that I never used.

I think my computer would be worse if it dedicated space to a SD card slot reader. I've never used it.

I wouldn't mind a USB-A port. But I have only wanted to plug something in twice over the last year and the adapter was fine.

I really don't see why I want an HDMI port. I have never used it once over the last decade I have owned Mac laptops.

I get that Marco wants this stuff. He runs some complicated portable podcast setup that pretty much requires every port on the old laptop. But I can't really tell the difference between him and the people that did not want Apple to remove the ethernet port. Or the floppy drive. Or the VGA port. Or DVI. Or the DVD-ROM drive.

The only port removal issue that I suspect hits a sizable number of users is the iPhone cord still being USB-A.

On the USB-A port thing, what reason does anyone have for plugging their phone into their computer anymore, though? Everything about iOS and macOS now supports wireless sync and file transfer. I can't think of a single thing that I'd even need that for...

If you have a long commute, it’s nice to have a 4lb battery strapped to your back

What does that have to do with having a USB-A port on the computer?

I'm a fairly happy MBP 2016 user. I would love to have a single USB-A port. And that is because of the logitech unifying receiver[1], the Elecom wireless trackball dongle[2], or the plantronics voyager uc adapter[3]. These are all USB-A and fit almost flush with the laptop, unless you have to attach a usb-c adapter, in which case you have to stick out 2" with a ridid adapter, or a 6" flexible cable adapter.

Now you're probably thing "but what about bluetooth"? And I'd agree. In fact, I have almost no need anymore for the unifying receiver. Except my elecom trackball isn't bluetooth, and up until this year's Logitech MX Ergo, bluetooth trackballs just were not an option. I still prefer the Elecom over the MX Ergo.

And the plantronics headset? I've gone through so many bluetooth headsets, and this is really the best one I've ever found that lets me switch between phone and PC. However - computer bluetooth leaves something to be desired for VOIP windows and mac). That's where their UC adapter comes in - it makes voice conferences heavenly sounding.

Anyways, these are small nitpicks. When I'm at my desk, my laptop is docked and the various accessories live in the dock. It's really only when I travel or want to use that headset to take a zoom call on my computer from the couch that I find myself missing it. I'd love to just leave that tiny dongle live in the laptop all the time instead of retrieving it (plus usb-c to usb-a adapter) as I'm setting up for the call.

[1]: https://www.amazon.com/Unifying-receiver-keyboard-Logitech-c... [2]: https://www.amazon.com/ELECOM-M-XT3DRBK-Wireless-Trackball-f... [3]: http://www.qtooth.com/plantronics-voyager-legend-uc-bluetoot...

I use these https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3... to alleviate the 'sticking out' problem.

Surprised Logitech doesn’t sell a $10 USB-C unifying receiver.

tethering while working on the train

I use my notebook all the time to charge my iphone. Especially if I happen to be using the phone as a hotspot whilst out and about.

>On the USB-A port thing, what reason does anyone have for plugging their phone into their computer anymore, though?

I'm a mobile dev. Also to charge it.

You can charge any modern smartphone (except iPhone) with the USB-C cable coming from your laptop charger

>SD card slot reader

Expansion, not sure how many people realise this - I have a 128GB card and make heavy use of the extra storage on top of my internal 256GB SSD.

The main reason to want an HDMI port appears to be that the external HDMI adapters are flakey as hell and simply do not work as consistently as the built in port. We have some LCD flatscreens in the conference rooms at the office, and one of the brands (which we've had since 2013) causes the brans new MBPs to panic.

I agree, but the keyboard is what gets me the most. I can get used to the feel, but it is simply too unreliable for a $2k computer. A spec of dust can bring it down for crying out loud.

Yes. It's ridiculous.

I’ve had a new MBP since it came out and also had a 12” MB too with virtually the same keyboard and never had a keyboard problem with dust. I wonder what I’m doing different?

You know it's an issue when apple releases an official guide on cleaning the keyboard for users with unresponsive keys due to dust.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662

I totally agree, though a MacBook Pro (note the Pro) with all these ports is a legitimate option. It's a similar situation as with the old Mac Pro and the new Mac Pro. Luckily they realized the problem. Honestly, Apple has the funds to offer both options: An ultra lightweight laptop series called 'MacBook' and a 'MacBook Pro' series with all these ports like USB-A, USB-C, SD-Card and HDMI that the pros need.

> I wouldn't mind a USB-A port.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a non-issue because of the existence of USB wires that have USB-C on one end and USB-A on the other, isn't that right?

Basically, any device which is USB-A works just fine if you simply use a USB-C<->USB-A wire.

Yep. I love my late 2013 15" (typing on it now), but also use a late 2016. They're both great machines, and there were controversial things about the 2012-era models at the time (soldered RAM, proprietary PCI connector for the SSD (I don't believe there was a standard for this at the time), no ethernet, the usual chiclet keyboard qualms, etc.) and that Marco doesn't mention those today actually bodes well for the latest design, I think.

The USB-C transition is certainly painful right now, but he's glossed over many advantages of the current model too:

- 3+GB/s (yes, gigabytes) storage speed

- 10Gb/s USB (and 4 of them)

- Thunderbolt 3 (and 4 of them)

- Discreet GPU is standard (thank you Apple)

- Touch ID on a Mac really is nice

- Better screen (actually very low reflectivity for a so-called "glossy")

- Better sound

- Better cooling (and quieter indeed)

- Does make the previous model seem thick and heavy to me, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that one

- I like the keyboard, but it requires some adjustment for sure

Because most of these here aren't design Changes. They are technical. You could have fitted all these technical improvement in the previous MBP as well.

He didn't "gloss over" the standard discreet GPU. He specifically mentioned that the integrated GPU was a benefit for the increased battery life it allowed, and that it wasn't a performance sacrifice for non-gamers and non-video-focused professionals.

To me, the only downside is trackpad - it's too large and palm rejection ain't working perfectly.

Keyboard is better, screen is better, ports and touchbar - neutral.

I felt similarly about the trackpad in the first few weeks but somehow the problem seems to have "gone away". I'm suspecting this is some sort of unconscious physical adaptation on my part..

Apparently I can't adapt. Spurious touch events while typing are incredibly frustrating on my 2016 MBP. I love the display and the size and weight but overall I'm a bit disappointed in my $3600 purchase.

$3600 was a lot. Too much for me, and i returned mine, and got a refurb 2015. Almost same CPU speed, longer battery life, quieter keyboard, more usable trackpad, retina screen. You can get refurb 2016 models now for ~$2500 - a better deal, but the 2016 changes - I just don't know who asked for them. I couldn't type in the same room as someone else without them being aware of it - that's just... a big problem (in my eyes/ears).

I will probably end up getting one of these 'newer fangled' models at some point, if only for faster CPU, eventually, but I was quite disappointed in the 2016 model, as were many of the long-time Mac users I know.

I wouldn't say it's the only downside, but it's my #1 complaint about the new MBP as well - the trackpad is bigger, which is not useful at all, and I constantly have problems with it.

Especially when trying to use things like 3-finger drag, or 2-finger scroll, it feels like half the time it's not working properly. It completely removes the spontaneity / "no thinking about it" quality of what was once the literally best part of Apple's laptops - the fact that the trackpad is an amazing input device for laptops.

It IS incredibly frustrating. And I dont understand, Why Apple has kept the keyboard the same size across both MBP, but not the track pad. The MBP 13 track pad size on MBP15 would be perfect.

You're not the odd one out, at least not to me. I also consider the newest MBP to be the best one, though I will admit that I really, really loved the one Marco's talking about in the OP.

For me, the Touch Bar is awesome and is super useful to me when doing video and audio editing and BetterTouchTool basically makes it useful in absolutely any app I want. The touchpad is almost laughably huge but, to me, it's way more useful than the smaller one, and I'm a big fan of the keyboard. It's a little loud but it has a very solid feel and I never feel like I miss a key accidentally because of the keyboard. It's very, very consistent for me and I really like that.

Overall, I just think it's a better computer for my case. I have 1 dongle that has USB, VGA, HDMI, and ethernet and I've used it twice since I got the laptop.

I recently picked up a 2017 15 inch with Touch Bar and I honestly love it. I feel like it's one of the best MacBook Pro I have ever owned (soldered components and all), except for the first 17 inch Aluminum PowerBook and my Thinkpad 600E/X it's my favorite laptop so far. I like the touch bar too (Nyan Cat [0] makes it worth it alone). It seems like it's ripe for playing around, fun little hacking/side project fun, and who knows, maybe something useful can come of it. It also just seems like the next step up from the finger readers on all the other laptops in the marketplace currently.

[0] https://github.com/avatsaev/touchbar_nyancat

You're not, there's even a relevant XKCD for this: https://www.xkcd.com/1172/

For one subset of users (of which I'm a part) I'd need one dongle - USB-C to DisplayPort - because everything else I need for my software development job is wireless. I'd occasionally need an SD Card reader for my camera, but I'm more likely to use my iPad Pro's dongle.

For others, they've invested in a lot of attached hardware that would need dongles to attach. It's a real pain for them.

Nobody's right or wrong, and to please everyone they'd need to maintain two models of MacBook Pro and that's not Apple's way. They'll either be successful, or like the Mac Pro they'll have to back out and redesign. They might lose users along the way but I'm sure they're aware of the risk. After all the play-it-safe PC laptop brands are nowhere near as successful.

Wait till your Macbook dies and you try to pull some data out of the soldered on SSD. I find dongles annoying, lack of magsafe irritating but the soldered on SSD is what really puts me off.

But you have backups right? Betting on data recovery is a really poor strategy, you might drop your laptop under a truck.

Yeah sure. But sometimes you are traveling, without access to your backup. Or something did not yet make it to the backup. Or whatever, 100 other situations. Making SSD soldered on as opposed to putting a $3 connector just adds to fragility. On $3k laptop. No thanks.

And the only reason that decision was made was to stop you from DIY upgrading the SSD and getting a few more years out of your $3k laptop

No. It was done to save motherboard space.

Those upgradable connector ports have a cost associated with them.

Well which is it, space or cost?

So a connector is /less/ fragile than a soldered connection? I don’t think so.

If you’re really depending that much on the ad-hoc access to a backup, drop an additional external SSD in your bag and add it to timemachine. That’s even more secure. I highly doubt that you are currently packing an external adapter to transplant your internal SSD to in case your notebook fails....

Let me explain: motherboard has 1000 components. One of them fails and it is likely a brick. SSD contains several chips. Most probably what will fail will not be an SSD but some capacitor somewhere on CPU power line. With a separate SSD, you buy connector/another laptop, pull it out of a bricked machine and you are good to go. With a soldered on SSD you a F^%$ed. All for a $3 connector.

I'm not paying $3k to be inconvenienced by such retarded design and carry yet another ssd along with my bag of dongles, because apple decided to get cheap on a $3 connector. Kapish?

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