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Comment by rhelmer | Hacker News Reader

I'm not sure why this is hard... why is any amount of flirting, or innuendo etc. at work OK?

I do realize that people spend much of their time at work, and it's a place people meet.

Personally, now that we have dating sites and such I would not risk my career by trying to initiate a relationship with someone I am working with...

I'd rather avoid even just the mild awkwardness of someone being uncomfortable at me asking them for coffee or dinner, and having to then work with them after that.

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Absolutely. But in some places I've worked, friendships built at work split heavily, though not exclusively, along gender lines. Men can reach out to befriend other men, and women women, but across that line has too much risk of being misunderstood.

It's not that simple. This isn't just some trend which can be fixed with a little logic. This is something that is changing the discussion fundamentally turning men guilty by default.

The metoo campaign IM basically allowed anything from actual abuse to catcalling be called sexual abuse. It expanded the definition of sexual abuse to basically align with only the most extreme feminists.

Men are now by definition guilty and any attempt at bringing nuance to the discussion will mark you as a possible perpetrator yourself.

> The metoo campaign IM basically allowed anything from actual abuse to catcalling be called sexual abuse. It expanded the definition of sexual abuse to basically align with only the most extreme feminists.

Are you implying that catcalling someone, in or out of the workplace, should not be considered sexual abuse?

I am saying that there is a context to these kind of social dynamics which can't just be considered binary. It depends on the situation.

All that get's lost in the panic.

Catcalling just seems like a bad example... I can't think of a situation where that seems appropriate?

I'm really not seeing why any of this belongs in the workplace. Why not bars, or if you're not the nightlife type, dating sites?

I can think of plenty where it's appropriate. Again it's about context.

Well the context in this case (per the article) is the workplace, and the article appears to focus on the US, to disambiguate the laws and norms expected.

no the context is the specific workplace and the specific people involved from what i am discussing.

I don't see the nuance.

You're giving me your conclusion ("men are now by definition guilty") without supporting evidence.

Could you give more concrete examples?

Wait a minute. Actual abuse and catcalling are both abuse. The metoo campaign had flaws—I think it badly hurt some men who’d been sexually abused or harassed—but the line of what’s appropriate didn’t seem to move there.

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