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Comment by egwynn | Hacker News Reader

I dunno if I’d say that makes you a jerk, but it strikes me as maybe a little overcautious. As with any security/safety issue, I think it comes down to the threat model you’re using. What’s the attack vector you’re protecting against? How likely is it that any attempt on that vector will succeed? What’s the damage if it succeeds? Speaking for myself, it never seems like I need to go too far out of my normal mode in order to keep the whole threat model in check.

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The threat model is an accusation. You are toast if you even get one accusation because it is cheaper to just get rid of you even if you are innocent.

Frankly, I think he is not being cautious enough because the term "sexual harassment" has also moved into the realm of disagreement. Maybe you don't like her work and criticize it or maybe you are her boss and not agreeing with her performance. Most women quickly figure the criticism is being levied because he is overtly professional with them and also because they are women. I have had many women come to me and tell me these stories with this line of reasoning.

Most women aren't like this but the threat model the OP is using is legitimate. In 2017, if you get accused, you are done. Your family is done. Just move to Bermuda and retire. It is not something you can recover from.

> we do walking meetings around the block in public areas.

Please don't do this.

Not cautious enough?

Yes, accusations were what I had in mind when I framed it as “threat model” in the question.

    it is cheaper to just get rid of you even
    if you are innocent

Is it? One clearly has some value to their employer. Replacing an employee isn’t free either. It’s also not “free” to add social friction to interactions with one's coworkers.

As best I know, this has never happened to anyone in / near my social network. That leads me to believe that this isn’t something that happens very often in the general population (unless I’m an outlier). And if it’s so rare, then it doesn’t seem to be worth going out of my way for.

Are you confident that you have enough value to your employer that they would be willing to write into your contract that you cannot be fired for a harassment claim until it has been proven in court (as Bill O'Reilly had[1])? I would guess not, and there are few people at any given company that could say that.

[1]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-08/o-reilly-...

This works till it doesn't. All it takes is once.

Raw statistics are worth internalizing, but in an era where a slip of the tongue is enough to hang you (socially), it's worth being overcautious.

Say you have an employee who is being considered for management. They allegedly said some pretty nasty things to another employee. When you interview their colleagues no one will corroborate the story. Do you think they will still seriously be considered for management? Nope.

There are plenty of people who have become managers after verifiably saying nasty things to other employees.

> You are toast if you even get one accusation

Except that's not what we're seeing; we're seeing one spiral into historical many. It's not a witch hunt, it's a reckoning.

Exactly what happened to a buddy of mine. Super fast tracker at wall street investment bank. female junior analyst could not cut it in the 80 hour work week, rough and tumble world. One month before review season, she cries "harrassment". he gets whacked, she survived another few months until the employer finally came around to understand she was sub-par. Could have ruined a career if he wasn't such a superstar and bounced back hugely. Story could have been a lot worse for him. Don't work with, hire, or mentor women is the message being clearly sent.

> we do walking meetings around the block in public areas.

>> Please don't do this.

Can you please explain? Walking meetings are quite popular in my network. I thought this is a pretty safe trend.

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