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Comment by Trill-I-Am | Hacker News Reader

$10 billion of urban transit spending won’t fundamentally fix the problem in Nashville because so, so many people commute in from out of the county because of white flight. We need regional transit solutions but they won’t happen because 1.) The suburban counties currently reap all the economic benefits with none of the costs (transit) 2.) The wealthier suburban counties (Williamson) don’t want people (read: anyone that isn’t rich and white) from Davidson County coming into their county. 3.) The extremely republican dominated state government isn’t going to spend any money on infrastructure for the main democratic stronghold of the state.

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I'm rich and white living in Williamson county. I moved here when I wasn't rich (but still white) because Franklin (seat of Williamson County) is a great place to live.

I would welcome rail from here to Nashville, I don't get up there much primarily due to traffic. I've lived in many places, including Manhattan and San Francisco, and I sorely miss the convenience of the train.

Simply put, rapid transit would be great for commerce in Nashville and it would either alleviate in some way or at least mitigate traffic congestion that will be compounded by the rapid growth of Nashville's suburban communities. I think costs of extensions into these communities should be shared, but ultimately funding rapid transit through sales tax makes sense because commerce/tax base should increase.

Anyway - just came here to give some perspective - don't get the impression that Williamson County, Tennessee is full of racists. It is not as diverse as Davidson County, but nonetheless a wonderful place to live.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I'm anxious to see how autonomous cars will affect situations like the one facing Nashville.

I have a hard time imagining the combination of self driving cars and VR not having a DRAMATIC affect on cities. As I’ve said many times before eye contact will be the killer app for VR. What happens to cities when you can look someone in the eye over the internet, or place them alongside you while you use your laptop? I don’t understand how that could be anything but transformative for the economics of cities.

I agree. My businesses now all have remote-able workers, though most of the time we want to work together. VR bridging that gap could make a huge difference (think whiteboard sessions). I think in general alleviating the requirement to be somewhere such as the majority of peoples 8-5 jobs will change traffic patterns dramatically.

This alone might make it appealing to take normal methods (car or autonomous car) into the city for leisure.

I have a hard time imagining the combination of self driving cars and VR not having a DRAMATIC affect on cities.

Ah but what will that effect be? There's nothing about a self-driving car that increases road capacities. And since a self-driving car doesn't get bored or frustrated, there's less of a disincentive for a self-driving car to drive during rush hour. So it seems like if all else remains equal, self-driving cars are going to make traffic worse, not better (sure, if you could combine them with ride-sharing, they might reduce things but lyft and Uber right now could be ride-sharing but they aren't. No reason to expect a self-driving taxi would better unless something impels it).

I'm with you, many folks seem to believe self driving cars will increase existing road capacity tenfold or something- I just don't see it. Once every car on the road is self driving they can maybe drive "too close" at speed, but overall there's still a limited amount of space on the pavement.

Now, if these self driving cars were high passenger capacity, that might have a great effect- but of course then we'd just call them a bus.

I don't think anyone really knows, but say we have cheap taxis, ride sharing, driving "too close", and far fewer accidents? There's still a limit but it should be quite a bit higher.

Trouble is the concept of induced demand, which roads enjoy in spades

I'm moving to Nashville in mid December from SF and looking to meet fellow tech entrepreneurs. We should grab coffee or beers (my info in my HN profile).

I’m from Baltimore yet graduated from MTSU and indeed the traffic in Nashville is nuts! Also racism like different cafeteria sections for whites and blacks exist not by signs but by time/attitudes not changing as quickly as they have elsewhere.

Maybe you need a faster car so that you can come visit us easier ;)

For what it's worth, I think attributing it to white flight is a little misleading. Davidson County is certainly more diverse than the other counties in the metro region, but most of the people I know who live outside of Davidson County do so because of the schools. I'm close friends with a few Nashville Metro teachers, and I think that issues within Metro stem mostly from lack of funding.

As for the support from outside Nashville proper, I think that all of my friends and coworkers who live outside the city have much more to gain from a transit system that extends outside the county. My commute is pretty reasonable, a consistent 15-20 minutes. My coworkers in Williamson, Rutherford, or Cheatham Counties all have significantly longer commutes. I'm not saying support is a given, but for all the people who talk about Nashville turning into Atlanta, it's not those of us who live inside Davidson County that have the most to lose.

Leaving the county for the schools is definitely "white flight".

(I also live in Davidson county and even ran for school board).

Only whites care about schools?

So what will? $10bn of freeway widening and maintenance?

Only thing that I would imagine would fix it would be 1.) An expansive light rail and BRT network going out to several of the suburban counties 2.) Congestion charges 3.) fixing the damn schools so people want to live in this county and don’t commute 4.) fix the horrible urban bus system so you don’t have to go downtown first before you can go anywhere else

And the way to get all that is amalgamation so that the suburban counties who benefit from an urban core without paying for it actually start paying for it...

Come on now "white flight" is your attribution to why people are moving to the suburbs? Maybe it's just they got married, had some kids, and want a home with a backyard and non-city living. The simplest answers tend to be the right ones.

"white flight" is invoked here often. I'm not sure exactly why, but maybe it allows a certain amount of feeling morally superior, and/or allows the author to feel like these people's predicament is entirely of their own design, and thus they are not real people deserving of solutions or sympathy.

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