Thinking the Way Animals Do (2015) | Hacker News Reader

Thinking the Way Animals Do (2015)

grandin.com

56 pointsnabla919 comments

It would be interesting to hear what Dr. Grandin has to say on "What it's like to be a bat":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_it_Like_to_Be_a_Bat%3F

She gave a wonderful talk at google in 2014 about the different ways humans conceptualize the understanding their surrounding world and how her thought process differs from that of non-autistic people.

"The Autistic Brain: Thinking Across the Spectrum" [60min]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA4tE3_2qmI

So I notice that her brain has been scanned and a careful analysis has been performed to detect differences relating to the areas she exhibits strengths in, and also the biological roots for some of her struggles.

It sounds like it was part of an elaborate project, but what was it, and how did the organzers arrive at the decision to approach and invite her to the study? Or did she hear about it, and ask to participate as a matter of curiosity?

Asa person with autism, it is easy for me to understand how animals think because my thinking processes are like an animal's.

this is either trite (in that all humans are animals), or an extremely bold claim indeed.

That's her thing. She has made a living consulting on animal behaviour for the design of animal handling processes such as slaughterhouses. She was good at it and people valued her insight into small details that would bother the animals. She also writes about her experience being autistic and her ideas about cognition from her unusual perspective.

I have met her and had a chance to chat, have lunch, etc, and hear her give a technical talk on designing animal handling systems. She's very smart, competent and confident. Her autism makes her quite a strange person to hang out with. Her overly bold statements and confidence could be part of that, but it's not so unusual for professors, writers and similar types to behave that way.

But she honestly believes she is missing some of the particular human stuff, while still being very bright, and thus has unusual intuition into non-human animal cognition. It's hard to provide evidence for this, of course.

In summary: not trite at all, but indeed a bold, interesting and controversial claim.

(Edit, caveat: I last met her 19 years ago and have not kept up with her work since)

I think it's no coincidence she specifically works on animals in /captivity/, her public talks basically start with how she was "broken in" like a wild animal as a child having to learn to act like a "normal" person.

I always assumed that her objective in working with captive and doomed-for-slaughter animals is that they're the biggest opportunities for mitigating harm. Not sure where I got that idea, maybe just guilt over not being vegan myself.

Another simple explanation is that there is a large industry around domestic animals, with consulting opportunities that don't exist for wild animals.

I don't doubt that improving welfare is important to Grandin, though.

If you read many of her writings, she tends to make out what is commonly thought of as a disability as a sort of super power. Very lucky of her to have a great support system and find an excellent niche though.

Tangential, but if you would like to learn more about her life, there is a movie entitled „Temple Grandin” (http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1278469/). I found it inspiring.

Fascinating, eye-opening article.

As a child, I used to have vivid imagination, vivid dreams, be afraid of silly things such as fear literal ghosts that could live in our (dark) corridor, at the attic or the shed on the far side of the garden. I remember taking more pleasure in playing, reading, interacting with other people, playing computer games, telling jokes (I used to be good at this), being more open, having many more friends.

In recent years I found few things give me pleasure, I very rarely remember my dreams, I can't really get into PnP RPG sessions because I have hard time visualizing what's happening, I have practically no friends, low stress resistance, affinity for vector graphics rather than raster (bitmap) graphics. I'm looking for work as a programmer. Emotionally, I'm an unhappy person. I'm barely even scared by horror movies (I never watched them until recently - I was too afraid as a child). I tend to watch "strong" movies, often thrillers, because they make me feel something, unlike most other movies. Girls stay away from me because they think I'm cold and emotionless, even call me a psycho.

This year, I've been diagnosed with Schizoid Personality Disorder. It boils down to I'm very uncomfortable showing emotions, and even feeling emotions. I avoid situations (even watching certain movies) which make me feel emotion. I won't go into detail but SPD is a very good description of how I feel.

This article makes me realize what happened to me as I grew up. To a degree it's common in all people - moving from a affective, visual kind of mind to a more verbal kind of mind. In me, it's pushed to an unhealthy extreme and causing me unhappiness. My psychiatrist told me what, this article is the missing piece of the puzzle as it tells me why and how.

Some people have an affinity for drawing, and raster/bitmap graphics which is a lot like it. I feel drawn towards vector graphics, SVG and Inkscape because I can utilize my analitycal mind and verbal thinking. With vector, you throw down some shapes and deform them. It's more like sculpting in clay or play-dough than drawing!

But I digress. Now I know how to move in the opposite direction, towards child-like imagination and the times I miss so much. Call it regress if you like. Away from depression, lack of friends, lack of purpose in life. Don't repress emotion, learn to express it. Take singing and/or dancing lessons, something I used to be deathly scared of (until I had an insight: I had to endure much worse things). Exercise my imagination the way I exercise my programming skills and work out. Do more vector graphics (they look cool in a github README.rst), but also try to learn drawing the old-school way. A couple of women, not asked, have told me I have a nice voice. I like fantasy and SF, why would I NOT record some audiobooks ? I can focus on short stories that are no longer copyrighted. I lived in a world of irrational fears. People don't care about me if they can't have a use of me, so they won't remember my antics.

There are a lot of disparate thoughts here.

I don't think you can judge the state of a person's mind by what sort of graphics they enjoy. That seems like a matter of personal preference. I'm pretty social and I think vector graphics are far more useful and more interesting than raster graphics.

> People don't care about me if they can't have a use of me, so they won't remember my antics.

This fundamental assumption, I imagine, makes it unpleasant to interact with people. Suspicion about the intentions of another person makes it difficult to cooperate and develop good rapport.

Any girl who calls you a psycho based solely on your personality (not on your actions) is probably not worth your time.

/2c

> This fundamental assumption, I imagine, makes it unpleasant to interact with people. Suspicion about the intentions of another person makes it difficult to cooperate and develop good rapport.

Do you know what's the alternative ? Constantly worrying how others perceive you. It's a simple observation that people are much more interested in themselves than you, and they don't care what you do unless it affects them. Many human interaction guides suggest that to be perceived as an interesting person, good friend, even charismatic you should listen to people as they speak and ask thoughtful questions. I used to live like that - keep my cards very close to my chest. Among other things, constant worry nuked my sense of humor. Stopping caring (to a point) is a way to focus on things other than what others might or might not think about you. "If you want to be someone - be yourself" - an interesting graffiti near the place where I live. I know a girl so self-conscious she changed her singature to look better. I've gone wayyy overboard with poker face.

I too found the article fascinating, along with your comment. My reaction is that in your openness, you exhibit a bravery and presence of mind that I admire.

Because I don't like where my life has been going and intend to change it. It's like watching life from the sidelines, and people distancing themselves from you one by one. I suffered much and realized it was much worse than the effort of working on myself and trying once more. Very little to lose. I suspect the biggest change in my attitude came when I started working out - the dopamine kick pulled me from depression(not the only factor, but the largest contributor) and I only have mild symptoms now. Later, my psychiatrist literally told me to never stop working out. That's more encouragement than I got from my physician (and my health requires regular exercise).

The degree to which people take everything this person says at face value is astounding.

You believe she's not sincere?

She backs it up with findings from brain science and behavioral science.

Did you read the article?

Even if she's full of it (which is unlikely if she's a professor at a well-known university in the USA), she is probably doing net good in the world by getting people to even consider that animals, especially ones that they eat or rely on for physical labor, might think and feel in the first place.

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