Lyft Set to Claim Third of U.S. Market in 2017 | Hacker News Reader

Lyft Set to Claim Third of U.S. Market in 2017

bloomberg.com

141 pointsWisNorCan64 comments

I always wish we as riders could set a "preset" for what we'd like in a ride.

Most times I take a lyft/uber I have something else to do in the car ride + rarely want to talk to the driver. Maybe that's rude, but if I take a taxi or a bus, I just want to get somewhere, not have a conversation.

With the advent of "tips" and "compliments" - I've noticed how much more drivers talk to you just because they think it will help with tips, when really - I'll tip them more if they get me there faster w/ less hassle.

Maybe this makes me a bit cold, but I feel like it could be a trivial thing to fix considering each rider has their own preferences. Seems like you could set a default on your profile "I like chats", "just business" etc - and let your driver know ahead of time and avoid the "I don't really want to talk right now" type of chats that have no way to not come out rude.

If I need to work or nap or just think quietly, I just tell the driver upfront. Never had anyone take offense or bother me after that. Not sure why that needs to be automated.

People tend to talk out of social anxiety or the perceived need to entertain a passenger who looks bored. I do not think the majority of drivers talk as a mercenary plot to try to get a bigger tip - simple human sociability seems just as likely an explanation.

Also, Lyft’s “thing” from the very start was to be a more friendly ride, with drivers encouraged to offer bottled water/snack/phone charger and chat.

I agree that just saying you want to work is totally acceptable and I've never had an issue, but I think it's naive to think driver's don't strike up a conversation, at least part of the time, as a way to build camaraderie and generate tips. This is a ubiquitous technique in the service industry and there's nothing wrong with it.

If Uber driver conversations were mostly tip-motivated then you would have seen an increase in the frequency of them when Uber introduced tipping a few months ago. I haven't observed that. Something like 80-95% of my drivers have started conversations.

It’s not just tips. It’s the 5 star rating.

> People tend to talk out of social anxiety or the perceived need to entertain a passenger who looks bored. I do not think the majority of drivers talk as a mercenary plot to try to get a bigger tip - simple human sociability seems just as likely an explanation.

Driving in circles for hours on end is not the most intellectually-stimulating occupation around. I entertained myself by talking to my passengers. Some of the things I learned turned into diaries that I originally posted at kuro5hin.org (RIP - reposted at http://www.taxiwars.org/ ).

Usually people were happy to talk back. Every so often people weren't interested in chatting, so I didn't talk to everyone.

get in, say hello, confirm destination, say thanks, headphones in, eyes down. Everytime

In Australia we generally jump in the front seats of cabs if travelling alone. Its a loose social rule, considered polite as you have a chat and its treating them more like an equal than servant.

If for work/other reasons I dont want talk I jump in the back seats and they leave you alone.

Left unsaid is that guys are expected to ride in front, women in back. Guys less likely to cause violence in front, women less likely to receive/accuse anything untoward in back. Sitting next to someone is more conducive to having a chat.

I've also observed this general expectation, but what do you mean "cause violence"? Do you mean it's less likely for the cab driver to get mugged if a guy rides in front or something similar?

Eh, it's not just mugged, although I suppose that's part of it. More just punching/stabbing attempts, they're either high, drunk, or mad about the fare etc.

In the front you're not going to get blindsided.

I was about to suggest the same thing, I've started doing that in Australia too. I tend to spring for Uber Black on those occasions though, the limo drivers seem more receptive to that, and more experienced. Hopefully the extra cost helps compensate for me being slightly less social / entertaining.

I would like that profile feature though (sounds like Virgin America's avatar system in the seat allocation, where you could show yourself as happy & chatty or a grumpy business man). And I'm sad that the Uber - Spotify integration never took off, my friends were really excited about being able to have our own playlists queued up when our Uber arrived on the way to the nightclub.

At some point in the early days of Lyft, the way to signal this was by getting in the front seat for a friendly conversation or the back seat for a boring but efficient taxi-like experience. I've done that recently, but I'm not sure - is that still a meaningful norm, or did that disappear along with the giant pink mustaches?

Wear a headphone and when you get in just let them know you are on a call.

I feel this the most when I'm coming home from the airport. I just spent 24 hours on a plane. The last thing I want to do is make small talk with a cab driver, but I'd feel rude not-doing it.

Honestly, I feel the opposite. After spending 24 hours sitting and disconnected from the ground world, I love to have empty chat with some local to know how things are going around there.

this is a great idea! I would love to specify no music, and a preference for no cologne or heavy air fresheners.

Whenever I take a rideshare I have a habit of asking the drivers how they like the app they’re driving for — Lyft/Uber.

Hands down Lyft drivers have better things to say than Uber drivers. Lyft pays more, reportedly treats the drivers better and was the first to build tipping into the app.

Anectdotely as a rider, Lyft drivers tend to friendly. Good to see Lyft growing.

Most drivers I have talked to use both and shift between them based on the number of rides they are getting.

Whether Lyft treats drivers better is very debatable. After 180 days of change campaign that Uber did many drivers believed Uber is better for them than Lyft. But Lyft also takes smaller cut of fare compared to Uber (Lyft also charges way less in my city so drivers get paid pretty much the same.) Both companies screw their drivers in one way or the other but Lyft does it with smiles and fist bumps. Source: I spend more time on uber/lyft drivers subreddits than i would like to admit.

I'm a Lyft devotee but 99% of drivers are signed up for every service available. In NYC that's Uber, Gett, Juno and probably a few more. So I don't think any service is differentiated by drivers.

I don’t like the new tipping functionality. Lyft is just pushing its obligation to pay its drivers fairly onto the customers.

Lyft is a good example for startups that are 2nd or 3rd place (or worse) behind a competing market leader. Perseverance can pay off tremendously. You never know what the market forces will dictate, when your competitor will be tied in some massive scandal, when the #1 market leader will get bought out and have their primary product shut down a short while later, etc.

Avis rent a car used to embrace that attitude: https://visual.ly/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/avis-1.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QjhMFKRvyqo/SODNmsNEHCI/AAAAAAAAAk...

Did it work out for them?

They're number 3 now. Enterprise was the surprise, taking the number one spot

They could scratch everything save "The Line at Our Counter is Shorter." That sounds powerful enough.

I'm surprised there aren't rental car counters that are just a bunch of automated kiosks, like they have for flight check-ins. It seems like there's rarely anything that actually requires a human at the desk when I've already booked the car rental a while ago.

Enterprise at LAX has kiosks but every time I try to use one I end up having to go to the counter anyway. Possibly due to using a business travel agent but I'm not sure.

I think Hertz has a VIP feature for frequent renters where they can just walk right to the car.

Isn't the human there to try to sell you insurances you don't need?

Their job is to say "uh the computer isn't working" if you show up looking like a lowlife

That is exactly what I had at Hertz at Newark Airport the other day (when I booked via Expedia instead of Hertz direct which would have led to the more convenient “just get in a car and go” experience). I’d rather deal with a human though.

Snapple did that too. I remember their commercials in the '90s celebrating that they were #3 and that made them awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLv__8u7KJQ

http://adage.com/article/news/snapple-shoots-3/18175/

Lyft was the first company to do ridesharing. Uber was actually second or third to the market, also behind Sidecar if I remember correctly. Uber's biggest problems were the problems it caused itself through stupidity, but the new CEO appears to be making a difference in terms of changing the perception of Uber.

Lyft was second, Sidecar was first.

Didn’t they desperately try to get acquired when things looked dire?

Very true. Who would have predicted Apple overtaking Microsoft?

This makes me happy. I started using Lyft in SF back in 2012 and I've always thought their drivers were friendlier and flat out more fun to ride with than Ubers.

I understand that a lot of people may not enjoy that kind of ride, but it's nice to see that level of customer service start to win out.

These days 80% of the rides I take are with drivers who are running both Lyft and Uber, and there is little to no difference between the drivers attitude or the ride.

The rare exceptions are not always in Lyft’s favor (over-the top theme decorated cars with annoying sound effects and props, or super chatty drivers who don’t stop talking even when I take out my earphones to explain that I’m on a call or watching a training video etc).

Uber is like the classic movie evil villain. They had their enemy dangling over the pit of alligators, but they spent too long giving their final speech and the good guy got away.

If Uber had better direction in the last 2 years they would have completely crushed Lyft, even put them out of business.

But I'm glad they didn't. I like Lyft more and the competition is good for users of both.

I'm not sure this is bad for Uber. Having competition can be helpful politically. It reduces claims of monopolization and makes laws that help "ride sharing" services less likely to be perceived as a favor to a single company.

After $1B investment from CapitalG, Lyft may also go public before Uber:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/20/new-york-times-digital-lyft-...

It will be very interesting if their two paths diverge. With Uber aggresively investing in autonomous systems, logistics and emerging markets. While Lyft provides its Open Platform to car manufacturers. And pivots to a more "experiential" consumer-centric culture and service.

Here's the source: "a private Lyft investor document." I'll take it with a grain of salt.

I like that lyft is getting more marketshare. But could we create an opensource rideshare server and a nonprofit that lets drivers keep 99% of the fare? There is nothing these companies are doing that the drivers couldn't get done themselves with a handful of developers. The lawyering/lobbying part is taken care of as long as they follow in uber and lyft's footprints.

isn't that a bit optimistic? while you're at it, why not create an open-source ticket-selling site where fees are only 1% of the ticket price? and a short-term home/room rental with tiny fees also? oh, and a global auction (or BuyItNow) marketplace with virtually no fees, because open-source. when you're finished with those, don't forget a worldwide social network with no ads, because why not, its gonna be opensource, right?

Exactly correct: there are many developers overenthusiastic about free/open software who trivialize everything other than the code (and sometimes even that).

"Business things? How hard could businessing possibly be??"

Do any of those sound crazier than (1) a free open source OS that anyone can just download and modify or (2) a free encyclopedia created by people on the Internet that has the same quality as EB.

Dream big. All the best ideas sound impossible until someone does it.

> "... couldn't get done themselves with a handful of developers"

This sounds like someone with an idea looking for a developer to 'just' implement that idea into an app for them. The software side of a real-time ridesharing service is not trivial

I've thought about this but it's not feasible. Firstly the software side is not trivial, costs for servers and payment processing and everything are real, and providing support for unsatisfied riders would be impossible.

* A customer just got an abusive driver who allegedly used a racial slur. The driver denies it. What do you do?

* A driver just got an asshole customer who threatened to make up false accusations if they didn't give them a bonus ride for free. What do you do?

* Nobody -- drivers and customers -- outside of the nerdsphere has heard of your app, so nobody is using it. What do you do?

* Some customers are using stolen credit cards, and drivers are mad at you that those fares end up getting chargebacked. What do you do?

* There's a city where people are allegedly using your platform for nefarious or extra-legal purposes. The local government is mad at you and demands answers. What do you do?

Your post is an excellent example of "I know nothing about managing X, so probably X is quite simple and easy to do." It's the same attitude that leads people to believe that they "could probably implement Facebook in a weekend."

Exactly. I don't understand why Uber and Lyft are even considered tech companies. Lyft is my jam and their Android app isn't even that great. Getting a lost receipt required an email because you can't recover them on the website. I feel like I could best their public-facing tech presence in 6 months with a decent team but I'd still have zero business. These guys are car services with a national brand and network of drivers. That's 95% of their value.

The problem is not the creating the software but the advertising and subsidies needed to gain consumer market share.

Some business guy could come in, copy the software.. add 30% extra cost and use that for marketing. With a sprinkle of socialism you could let governments run the server with API's and force removal of competitors.

Ride Austin is a 100% non-profit that allows drivers to keep 100% of the fare. It had several months to develop free from the influence of Lyft and Uber after they left Austin.

My driver on Friday said he went from Ride Austin to Lyft because he gets more rides from Lyft.

Perhaps someone else can further comment on why Ride Austin isn't winning.

One potential contributing reason: it’s not (or wasn’t recently) in app stores other than US, and doesn’t take international credit cards - making it a non-starter for many visitors to Austin. Lyft had the same problem too - I don’t know if it’s fixed because Uber never had that issue so I use that.

Google was coy on their plans in Arizona involving Lyft. They did share there would be news in the not too distant future. Google ride sharing in Arizona need to be supplemented with human drivers for trips Google can not do automated. My guess is Google will use Lyft will this service for the humans.

BTW, Google also owns 9% of Uber.

Why is there no Lyft in Europe?

Lyft is very focused on winning the US market before doing aggressive international expansion.

It appears they are also willing to follow the law.

What do you mean by following the law in this case? And how would they be different from Uber in this regards? Uber has recently worked closely with regulators in both London and Brazil to create regulation where little existed before.

What regulation have they created in London? AFAIK, Uber London Ltd has always just operated as a private hire firm; the only notable things with regards to regulations was what ended up with the court case as to whether their use of GPS distance-tracking was considered a taximeter.

In Brazil it’s passed regulation while in London it’s currently a WIP according to press.

You did not answer my question though. How is Lyft any different in this regard? Quite to the contrary Uber is as far as I know breaking ground in this regard in Brazil and London with possible replication of these efforts elsewhere.

A whole third of a market where no one is making money, and hasn't for a decade now? What a great achievement.

Would you please not snark or post unsubstantive dismissals? We're trying for better than that here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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