Saudi Arabia detains 201 princes, businessmen in $100B corruption probe
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The fact that Europe, US, western media and other busy bodies can sanctimoniously preach human rights and execute wars and destroy entire countries for decades non stop while supporting a regime like SA is a true reflection of how global news and propaganda works. And exposes the silliness of a 'value' based world that exists simply to provide cover for geo-political objectives to cause devastation and death on the ground. These are crimes against humanity.
And mindbogglingly this support has continued even while the Saudis finance the spread of a hateful wahhabist ideology and we spend billions to build surveillance states at home to protect against it.
Yet it is Libya, Iraq and now Syria and Iran - all generations ahead on human rights compared to the Saudis - that are targeted while the Saudi's continue uninterrupted with western support. This 'purge' is happening with US and european support so you don't see the usual hysteria about 'rule of law' and 'human rights'. This is a truly messed up world.
Really getting the royal treatment even during probe. Btw, is this in any way related to the pending Aramco IPO?
> Btw, is this in any way related to the pending Aramco IPO?
More likely the handover to the new crown prince (MBS). The IPO could be cancelled anyway but both are driven by MBS to modernise Saudi Arabia and make it ready for a future without oil.
That doesn't mean that they shouldn't go to a proper jail if convicted but I'm sure they already feel punished.
How on Earth is turning the country into an absolute dictatorship, with the rule of law utterly disregarded, supposed to help Saudi Arabia move forward? The last things I would want to do financially would be to put money into a state where the local dictator has a proven willingness to seize assets on a whim.
Are there societies or cultures which are not yet at a stage where democracy is the best government form?
Because this is what it boils down to.
1) Take out competing power lines in the family. As a kicker they get to seize upwards of $300 billion that can go into the remake-Saudi-Arabia-fund for Mohammad Bin Salman (likely several times what they'd get initially from the Aramco IPO).
2) Neutralize concerns over that by covering it in a guise of cleaning up the kingdom. Most likely the kingdom has always operated by these means and they're simply throwing a switch and choosing to selectively prosecute.
Their plan bets on the second part being an acceptable cover story. They're betting some percentage of people will buy the premise outright. They're betting some percentage of people will find the cover story good enough to provide their own personal cover to continue working with the Saudis ('just give me some kind of rationale I can take to my people'). It would all rest on the notion that given enough time and stability afterward, that the vast majority of people that do business with Saudi Arabia now, will let this slide.
[1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5055923/Arrested-Sau...
Looks like PR work while they stay in their nice rooms.
This makes me very uncomfortable.
Freedom as a concept seems to be under direct attack in their Kingdom considering the Crown Prince is rounding up political enemies en masse with complete impunity.
1: https://www.vox.com/world/2017/11/6/16613088/saudi-arabia-pr...
2: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/lebanon-prime-minister-s...
Yes.
Propaganda Model is real and tangible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia
2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism#Saud...
3: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/lebanon-prime-minister-s...
Keep in mind that the opposing side is being murdered, or detained, without due process.
But, hey, this is Saudi Arabia, so let's just treat it with bemused detachment like an extended Game of Thrones season.
On the list of Saudi outrages, this ranks pretty far down the list.
My point was that when it's murderous tyrannical allies like Saudis, the mainstream response is just like yours, "eh, what am I supposed to do about it, that's how it goes".
When it's adversaries like Saddam Hussein, it's "wtf, let's bomb the shit out of them".
Diplomats don't care because the status quo with regards to oil hasn't changed.
"It's a dictatorship, it's not supposed to be fair". Or I guess all Saddam or Gaddafi had to do was to rebrand as monarchs and US would have completely backed off.
Even so, it sounds like we both agree that this is not a “corruption probe.”
An editorial exploring the true motives behind the 'corruption probe' would be appropriate.
I agree with your sentiment, but think the headline could simply omit the phrase “corruption probe” without losing any information.
The big question to me is what the kingdom will do with all the assets they confiscated.
EDIT: I think they'll start liquidating large assets for their http://vision2030.gov.sa/en plan.
That position couldn't shake Microsoft very much at all, much less the wider tech world. Alwaleed's position in Apple and Twitter are, basically, meaningless to affecting tech stocks. Apple is a $900 billion company, nearing the worth of Aramco at this point. Alwaleed's entire worth is $17 billion, barely a drop in the ocean versus tech stocks. Not to mention nobody seriously believes those positions are going to be haphazardly liquidated. If Saudi Arabia manages to seize Kingdom Holdings, they'll most likely make gradual maneuvers.
They will most likely fold them into the sovereign wealth fund.
Not saying its true, but just thought it might add context.
Never forget who created the house of saud in the first place.
The most convincing part of this seems to be that Alwaleed bin Talil has longstanding ties with the US political system, particularly on the left. His past work with the Podestas has many eyebrows raised.
There are also dozens of sealed federal indictments pending, which I'm told is quite unusual. The assumption seems to be that they are related to Mueller's investigation although I've seen no compelling evidence that this is the case, aside from timing and wishful thinking.
Neither the total number, nor timing, is particularly unusual; then speculation about Mueller is mostly based on the number in D.C. between the Manafort and Papadopoulos indictments being somewhat higher than would be expected by random chance, but even that is fairly weak. There is basically zero evidence of anything unusual with sealed indictments.
I'm also fairly amused at some comments here being critical of the manner in which the changes are happening. An autocratic monarchy is not going to change via committee meetings, legislative votes, or reasoned judicial orders -- not significantly at least.
Moving toward more moderate policies or even further to a constitutional monarchy is going to come from the use of brute force.
A corrupt regime is bad, but sometimes the alternatives are worse. Just look at some of the Arab countries that were once relatively stable yet now are (still) in turmoil after the Arab spring.
But yes absolutely, this is a PR strategy change, but it is primarily concerned with the public image of the crown prince not of the KSA itself.
Whether this reform agenda actually comes to pass is yet to be seen, but I think we should applaud both the rhetoric and the efforts made so far.
Technically they've said that women will be allowed to drive at some time in future, possibly June 2018. As of today women are still not allowed to drive.
It's still a pretty major move though.
Unless they become a constitutional monarchy with severely limited powers I am going to hold my applause.
For a country like Saudi, if you want to make a large scale sudden changes which turns everything upside-down (even if those were good intentions), you will end up with something like Afganistan or Iraq.
The pace of change (however slow for our standard), is quite unthinkable for the locals. I think it will take a couple of decades, at least, to see if anything good came out of this.
Women are NOT allowed to drive until at least a year from now, for "reasons". This was just a PR bone thrown to the West before starting the war on Lebanon.