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Comment by quizbiz | Hacker News Reader

I am shocked Tel Aviv is yet to be mentioned. Tel Aviv and the area are an incredible place. Israel is home to more publicly traded companies than all of Europe, 2nd to USA and Canada. More patents per capita than anywhere else, etc. Lots of young people right out of the army eager to organize with friends with the chutzpah to challenge the status quo and change the world.

See http://www.startupnationbook.com/ A fantastic read.

Though living there if you don't have Jewish family may not really be an option, visiting for business and pleasure is easy.

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Out of curiosity, I looked it up -- Israel may even be harder to immigrate to than the United States. Background: I am a US citizen, but my mom's family is Jewish. Most of my mom's family came over from Hungary during WWII, while the ones who stayed behind were killed in the Holocaust. While I am not a practicing Jew (my immediate family is mostly atheist now), this should actually allow me to immigrate to Israel as an Israeli national.

Here's the tricky part. First, Israel has an acceptance of dual citizenship, so that is not a problem. However, an immigrated citizen is also subject to conscription in the IDF, just like every other Israeli citizen (and that includes women). It seems moving to Israel and then having to do 3 years of military service would put quite a damper on your startup plans.

If you're not Jewish and of Jewish ancestry? You're screwed. There is no easy way to gain a long term visa otherwise. So I would honestly have to put Tel Aviv at the bottom of the list, not the top, for international startup cities.

I think most immigrants past a certain age do a shortened military service, measured in months rather than years. And there are perks like certain tax exemption and free graduate studies (though even paying the full amount for grad studies would seem nearly free if you're coming from the US - Ivy League equivalent education costs about $5k/year or so last time I checked)

Israeli immigration laws in general are a mess because they are based on basic assumptions that were true when the country was founded:

1. In 1948 there were about a million of Jewish refugees in Europe, soon joined by about a million Jewish refugees from Middle Eastern nations. This made automatically granting citizenship for Jews a necessity at the time.

2. The concept of non-Jews (or basically anyone that had a choice) wanting to live in Israel, which was extremely poor and under real existential threat was almost laughable, and never seriously considered.

These aren't true anymore, and I believe will mean the immigration policy will need to change at some point. Unfortunately Israel is saddled with a barely-functioning parliamentary system which means no coalition government survived its full 4 year term in the past 20 years, making this level of changes extremely hard to push.

    If you're not Jewish and of Jewish ancestry? 
    You're screwed. There is no easy way to gain 
    a long term visa otherwise.

I personally know several non-jewish ex-pats living and working in Israel (and a ton of jewish ones), so it must be at least possible (although might not be easy).

If you know how they got their visa that could be very interesting. From what I read, the other major way to gain work entry is to have a company sponsor you (which your own startup doesn't usually count for that).

"Coming to work in Israel:

Migrant workers can work in Israel as specialists in one of the following trades: Nursing care Agriculture Construction Welding and industrial professions Hotel work Ethnic cookery"

http://www.gov.il/FirstGov/TopNavEng/EngSituations/ESMigrant...

I would really appreciate to work there. What are the special conditions for Jewish families?

I think that while there seems to be a very active startup community in and around Tel Aviv, I think it could only be considered a real option to people of Jewish decent (who can prove it and are willing to go through the "Aliyah" immigration process) or if you are married to an Israeli. With those barriers for entry, Tel Aviv (Israel) pretty much drops off the list. I must say, though, that there is definitely no shortage of talent in Israel, with fresh and eager graduates from Israels Technion, Tel Aviv University and the University of Be'er Sheva.

I would be more open to Tel Aviv if Israel was more open to us.

One of the operating hypothesis in this search is that the place that would welcome us with open arms will also welcome bright people from around the world, and will tend to thus accrue the bright people who seek a better environment.

Immigration is what built the US, for instance. Part of the decline of the US is going to be due to its immigration policies.

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