Plug-In EV Sales in Norway Up 48% in October, Overall Market Share at 43% | Hacker News Reader

Plug-In EV Sales in Norway Up 48% in October, Overall Market Share at 43%

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58 pointstresbonn28 comments

It's going to be an interesting inflection point when gas stations start closing. It's easy to setup a charging station at home, but if the nearest gas station is 30 miles away that's a different story.

Imagine how much simpler a commercial charging station is than a gas station. You already need electricity for a gas station, but you no longer need to send tanker trucks out to fill tanks and technicians to maintain all the mechanical pumps, or even the auditors who make sure that the pump is measuring gallons correctly.

It will be really easy to enable long distance travel for EV's that can DC fast charge. Charging for your home area is covered by wherever you park it.

Seems like a gas station death spiral is inevitable, once there is a solid travel network in place and ample 200 mile range EV's available.

Just to be clear, the power requirements for a supercharging station and a gas station are wildly different. The supercharging station might be putting out 75KW per car, and have a dozen cars charging at any particular point. A whole gas station might pull less than 75Kw easily.

The requirements for the kind of grid hookup you need to handle that power are wildly different. Alternatively, you can have a lower powered grid connection, and local batteries to buffer energy and lower peak power, but that is even more expensive, and only works if your charging station has low average usage.

Once built, the supercharging station might need less maintenance, but it is WAY more expensive to set one up up front. This won't stop them from proliferating, IMO, but it's still a big barrier to entry, and a nice commercial "moat" for Tesla to offer their customers.

We have worked with electric trains with over 1Mwatt or more per machine in places like subways. When a train slows down and stops, an enormous amount of electricity is recovered for another train to accelerate at the same time.

Also the requirements of aluminum factories in electricity are mind blowing.

What I mean is: We already have those electrical installations running, way bigger installations than 10 supercharging stations grouped together, for industry and transport.

I see EVs as an enormous opportunity for those technologies to become cheaper as they become mass produced. But the technology is well proven and works.

It will also accelerate the development of things like superconductors or extreme voltage continuous current for electric transportation.

The problem isn't a lack of technology, but cost. You have to get your electric utility to make substantial improvements to their delivery infrastructure. This generally involves digging up the street and laying cables, not just flicking a switch. It gets more expensive depending on how far your proposed charging station is from the nearest high voltage distribution point.

It does not take a lot of buildings to get into the 1MW range.

A 20 story apartment complex with say 400 apartments needs ~1MW. Power companies are used to rolling out these kinds of connections and large ones do it on a weekly if not daily basis.

Exactly. “More power” is a solution with commercial products available. Even a common DC fast charger is 440v, which is about the same voltage they hook up to commercial buildings.

We just need enough EVs on the road so that it becomes economical.

So all the parking lots at the train stations in my densely populated country that has proper (mostly electric) public transport system could be easily retrofitted with superchargers. That’s an interesting thought.

Gas stations make money on selling snacks and other convenience store items.

Successful commercial charging stations will be judged by the quality of their coffee and lounges.

Plug in stations should be like mini coffeeshops with good wifi and comfortable couches for waiting 1-2hrs with your laptop. Maybe they can sell VR game experiences to kill the time and big TVs broadcasting news/sports.

At least until we get to the point the plug-ins are everywhere, such as in every apartment building and public parking lot... but even then there will be a need for public stations.

Will need a lot more space for the cars, which may be fine in the US where there is lots of space, but tricky elsewhere.

> Charging for your home area is covered by wherever you park it.

Though if you're staying with relatives for a week, you'll be playing musical cars to make sure everyone's charged. A problem you don't really have with gas cars. It's not all upside.

You only need to charge it if your actually driving the next day. So, that's generally less of an issue.

Worst case use an extension cord and most cars will charge overnight.

I suspect it will look a lot like "you have an iPhone charger, right?" but with bigger cables. Not the end of the world, but certainly more involved then stopping at gas stations as needed.

Every electric car I know of has the option of using regular electric outlets to more slowly charge.

In Norway, Finland and Sweden that is going to be quite a bit more than 30 miles for lots of people.

Is this really a surprise? Massive government incentives and cheap electricity.

I was there this summer working on an oil rig (Aasta Hansteen), ironically. Teslas, BMW i3's/i8's and more... everywhere. What is more, is that many of the Norwegians who work in the oil industry own electric cars because "petrol" cars are too expensive.

It is to me, given the level of subsidy and current tech! And there are always plenty of people who will believe that electric cars will never work for any significant chunk of a population. Even on seeing data like this they will probably retreat to "oh it's a European country, nothing like what I experience."

The level of economic tax break is such that a Leaf costs about the same as a Golf[1]. These are pretty equivalent cars in size, though the Leaf is more fun around town, and the Golf more fun on the highway. But the Leaf has a huge range disadvantage.

Wikipedia also says:

>Electric vehicles are also exempt from the annual road tax, all public parking fees, and toll payments, as well as being able to use bus lanes. These incentives are in effect until the end of 2017 or until the 50,000 EV target is achieved.

People are buying these largely as second cars (which is what everybody should be doing, IMHO). Once the battery costs come down so that 300-500km BEV range costs same cost as gas up front, BEVs become the primary car, and market share will increase even further.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_N...

This largely has to do with the high average income and a wealthy state than European culture or anything like that. I can't imagine my city ever giving up parking fees or the average person being able to afford a mid-tier electric car, even with the subsidies we have here in Canada.

Not to mention there are usually far better offerings for electric cars in Europe. Such as the Golf GTE which isn't available in North America: http://www.autotrader.ca/expert/20170605/first-drive-2018-vo...

The lack of infrastructure is also a big deal. I personally didn't get a plug-in because of the lack of access to plugs in my apartment building and only a few charging stations in my city.

Are you trying to prove the point of my second and third sentences? :) Otherwise I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

Talking about massive government incentives destorts reality. Electric cars are more expensive in Norway than in the US where they get a subsidy.

A more accurate description would be to say that there is a massive discouragement to buy fossile fuel cars in Norway.

Where do you see cheap electricity? Here in San Jose it’s some of the most expensive electricity in the country, yet EVs are extremely popular. Even with expensive electricity the EV is still cheaper than gas and better for the environment.

Part of the October boost is probably caused by a significant increase in road toll for any ICE-powered car entering Oslo, introduced (if memory serves) October 1st.

Roughly half the population of Norway live within an hour's drive from Oslo (this is probably a slight exaggeration, but emphasis on 'slight') - so this increase probably served to boost sales of any toll-exempt vehicle instantly.

All of the hubbub around Norway and EVs smells to me. How far can you really go in an electric car in the winter in a country in/around the arctic circle? How far does the distance an EV can travel diminish when you have to heat the cabin?

Most of Norway is very far from the arctic circle. And even the few bits that are close to the artic circle are pretty warm most of the year. Thanks to the gulf stream most of Norway rarely gets that cold.

Most of the population also live close to the sea, which helps keeps the winters mild.

If you spend a good amount of time at a winter cabin in the mountains, there is a good chance you got two car and can take your non-electric there.

Does EV mean purely electric vehicle or does it include hybrids?

It includes plugin hybrids. The article says that the 43% (42.9%) total breaks down to 21.6% plugin hybrid electric vehicle and 21.3% battery electric vehicle. It wouldn't include hybrids that cannot charge batteries from a wall plug, like the ordinary Prius.

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