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Comment by pmlnr | Hacker News Reader

I'm hosting my own mail, and running my own server, but I know this is not a viable route for the generic public. Although tools like Yunohost[1] exists for this specific reason.

Telegram is nice for instant messaging: it's simple, cross-platform, does well with resources, and run by a non-profit org. Yes, russians might be spying on it. FB/G are spied by others. Meh. (There's Signal as well, but I like my SMS separated.)

Google Docs are terrible anyway: slow, lacking lots of features. Libreoffice or (god forbid!), installed M$ Office - and share the docs on, for example, Dropbox.

However, it's already very hard to tell people what the web used to be. Just read the entry "I’m 22 years old and what is this."[2] - web devs being in the business for <10 years may not even remember how it was before G or FB. I'd welcome any ideas how to address this.

[1]: https://yunohost.org/ [2]: https://medium.com/@tylrfishr/im-22-years-old-and-what-is-th...

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Yup, I self-host email, blog and all my stuff except with Cloudron [1]. I use wire instead of telegram.

One challenge (at least amongst my circles) is that people do not seem to value diversity and are for some reason obsessed with mono-culture. For example, they are not willing to try another docs or email or phone provider. Even if they try something new, they are quick to jump to opinions in mere seconds (for example, I asked a friend to try mattermost[2] instead of slack and he wanted to go on about how the shade of blue was unappealing...). Many of my friends are also truly vested into converting their entire household into apple or google products (i.e one of them). If apple made a mattress tomorrow, they would immediately buy it :)

[1]: https://cloudron.io [2]: https://about.mattermost.com/

i think what we need is another type of walled garden, what i'm calling a freedom garden. a complete alternative to APPL and GOOG that has media, devices, apps, &c.

free software projects and linux distributions have been around for years, but the focus is often on compatibility and familiarity. i say, we throw all of that in the trash. we need fresh ideas, fresh designs, and interfaces. interesting new devices and interaction models. app stores that engage creators as a revenue channel. there's no reason why liberty and profit should be at odds. [0]

i especially think that we need to rethink how we develop applications. clouds are useful, but why are the developers on the hook for all of that compute? i think we need to radically simplify the tools we use for provisioning compute resources in a way that allows users to leverage all of their compute resources and easily attach more on-demand. this echoes back to plan 9, which has this idea of creating a virtual system out of many hosts.

we're just getting started, and there are a lot of challenges ahead of us. if any of this sounds interesting or fun, maybe you want to get involved with our nonsense. [1]

[0]: https://developer.elementary.io/

[1]: https://heropunch.io/join.html

It's not about applications, it's about hardware. The corporate giants control the mobile hardware.

read the website, bud. we're tackling that one too.

https://www.heropunch.io/tomo/cybredeck/

most of the action is happening in #heropunch:matrix.org i'm on the os side, actually. @mlg:matrix.org is tackling the hardware. we're starting simple with off the shelf parts, but if people like our shit we are def interested in scaling up to make more advanced devices.

also, if you would like to back something that exists right now there's the librem 5

https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

Amazing. I hope you pull it off.

In my circle I've found a social stigma surrounding search engine. I use DuckDuckGo, and I've had numerous friends and co-workers essentially retort: DuckDuckGo? Why don't you use Google?

It's amazing how Google as a search engine has developed such brand loyalty to the point that people don't think there can be any alternatives. Personally, I like DDG's results better, and I also simply like diversifying. But as I said, even which search engine you use is highly stigmatized.

People should really be open to trying new things once in a while. How can people be certain that some search engine X isn't better than Google's engine when they haven't even tried it? Same goes for browsers -- years ago Chrome won people over with its speed, and friends I speak to still have this perception that it's the fastest browser out there, when some tests would begin to suggest its losing that edge (no pun intended).

I pay about $1/month for a decent email provider. There is also still free ad-supported competition out there. That's not the problem why people are all at gmail.

The bigger hurdle are the email clients. Both on desktop, android and as webmail, email clients are mostly fairly bad (as in: just as good as the one I had nearly twenty years ago). It's hard to keep up with Gmails UX and features, especially since open source software isn't exactly known for stellar UX.

I have to agree on this. I have yet to find an email client that works as elegantly as Inbox (which is obviously Gmail-exlusive).

I have been considering migrating away from Gmail, but it is a bit daunting, mostly due to all of the logins I will need to update (if that is even possible) and because I would have to go back to manual sorting and categorizing.

I just recently completed migration from Gmail. It does take a while because there are so many things you might forget to update and then you're like, "oh crap," I changed my email address and for some strange reason LastPass didn't store the password.

Most people who use telegram haven't heard of Signal, most people who use Signal won't touch telegram with a ten foot pole.

I hosted my own mailserver for years then at about the same time email to Outlook.com and GMail started to bounce due to blacklisting. I complied with all the SPF requirements but no luck. Turns out you can be blacklisted by simply being on the same network as another blacklisted server. Guilt by association. Try getting a human response from these faceless corporate giants.

Neither of those services blacklist based on bad netblock neighbors anymore. The only one I've seen to that in years is AT&T, and it has only been a problem with them sporadically.

But, with telegram, I don't see a way to message people on FB messenger. so that means, I'll need to get them to switch: tough sell.

I'm aware. If you mention though, that this doesn't suck their battery (or listen in to their conversation) they might think about it, though I'm having a hard time making people care as well.

Someday someone's gonna make a IM <-> FB gateway.

Unfortunately FB will then change the API to block the gateway.

It's not in their interest to allow open access to their messaging service. The current status quo means you have to be in their app or on the website to access your contacts and view their ads!

Absolutely, but it doesn't mean the arms race will never start. :)

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