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Comment by Mz | Hacker News Reader

Over time, of course, this physical connection wanes. While many bemoan this loss of titillation, Dr. Levine celebrates it. “It’s smart,” he said. “If you’re going to be crazy about the other person all the time, how are you going to raise kids? How are you going to be able to work?”

This article is all kinds of horrifying. The above paragraph plus the phrase "maintenance sex" = ick. What does that mean? "We are just going through the motions cuz we gotta. Kind of like plunging the toilet."?

Maybe you should go read a book like "Lovers in marriage" before you go trying to write anymore marriage advice.

My ex was my best friend. That in no way suggested it was platonic.

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> What does that mean? "We are just going through the motions cuz we gotta. Kind of like plunging the toilet."?

In a sense, perhaps. A lot of people get into a pattern where they're busy with other things and unable to have the kind of romantic setup they had before. But, on the other hand, people generally enjoy sex even if they have to do something unromantic like set a time on a calendar and just stick to it, and it has the effect of deepening their relationship.

Or, you know, you can make time for each other because this is the most important person in your life. Instead of making excuses.

Firsthand experience suggests to me that such an approach leads to better experience over time, not going through the motions.

"Going through the motions" involves making time for each other.

I don't think you and I are on the same page here.

I was married for 22 years. Setting a date and keeping an appointment was not how we handled it. I had a friend who would call me to bitch about how her and her husband did it once a month, they were just too busy and did not have time, etc. My husband would walk in and start making snarky remarks while I was on the phone and I would shush him.

When they were busy, this couple recorded their favorite shows during the week and watched them together on Saturday night. They did not lack the time. They just thought X Files was vastly more important than having a love life.

That was not at all how my marriage worked. I quit being sympathetic. I made polite noises and tried to change the subject.

Ok. Well what do you propose a couple does if they find they're not having sex as much as they want? Just hope the problem will fix itself?

Make time for each other. Have a date night, even if you are broke and watching a movie on the TV at home. The point is spending time together, not spending money.

Never, ever go to bed mad. Settle it. This is usually followed by makeup sex.

Never tell your spouse to sleep on the couch. If you are so mad that you can't imagine sleeping next to them, grab a blanket and take yourself to the couch. Argue over who gets to declare "No, I'm sleeping on the couch!" (It gets funny at this point and hard to keep a straight face.)

Kiss each other good night every single night, even if you just had a fight. This often initiates makeup sex.

Talk.

Actively look for sexy activities to share, like oil massages.

Shop for naughty lingerie together.

Share your fantasies.

Being a lover in marriage is about trust and intimacy. This requires ongoing efforts at communication. It also requires that you invest time in the relationship. It takes at least 15 hours a week to establish and maintain intimacy. Intimacy is the font of good sex when novelty is no longer your shtick.

Remember that all is fair in love and war and this is love, not war. Make up caring exceptions to the rules you were raised with and to hell with what other people think.

Always fight fair. This is your lover. It undermines the relationship to be nasty to them when you disagree and the price you pay for that often shows up in the bedroom.

This might be the most beautiful comment I've ever read on HN. Thank you.

These things are all great but if your problem is feeling worn out all the time turning it into a big task like this is the opposite of what you need.

Marriage is inherently a big task. There is no way around that.

When you have trust and good communication it makes it easier to get together without an appointment at times when you genuinely are busy and exhausted. You make it clear you need 15 minutes with your wife more than you need that extra 20 minutes of sleep on a night when you have to get up in 5 hours. You humorously agree to The Sedate Thing when you want sex but are not up for The Wild Thing.

You also work at resolving the issues keeping you too exhausted to have quality time. Life happens, but if issues like that never improve, it is often an excuse for people who aren't really comfortable being close for some reason.

That may sound lecturing. It isn't intended to be. It is intended to be empowering. My experience was career military, a very demanding job. We had two special needs kids. I was chronically short of sleep the first 7 years of my oldest son's life and I had chronic health issues.

My husband and I didn't have cushy lives. But we set a high bar for certain things and it paid off.

Best.

Typical HN word-redefining-loop bug.

It just means that there's less sex than in the first few months, but if there's no physical intimacy after that initial time, it may signal trouble.

In other words, I read it as descriptive, not prescriptive.

I had sex 2 to 3 times a week for 20 years with the same man. The most hot and heavy sex did not occur in the first few months. It occurred when I crossed the country to see him a few years into the marriage when our kids were still little.

I don't feel I am misreading the article. I stand by my horror. Downvotes for saying it don't make me less appalled.

(edited for tone)

In many perfectly healthy, normal marriages, there's a disparity (sometimes significant) in sexual interest/appetite between the spouses that has absolutely nothing to do with their love for each other and everything to do with basic biological, sociological, and psychological differences.

In such a marriage, sexual intimacy actually requires focused effort to maintain. Not "work". That makes it sound transactional in nature. But effort. Like, you have to prioritize it.

To suggest that marriages in which this is necessary are somehow broken is simply unfair. Every marriage is unique and beyond basic expectations of love and decency, it's unreasonable to use ones own experiences as the template by which to judge other people's relationships.

I was molested and raped as a child. I got married at age 19 to another 19 year old with issues as serious as mine, though different. I did a lot of therapy. We did couples counseling. I also had a higher sex drive than him and was unfaithful, which he knew and did not throw in my face.

Sorry if my remarks bother you, but your assumptions are completely out of line. My marriage was neither easy nor a case of good fortune.

So how about if you try to abide by HN guidelines and leave out the condescension, etc.

Condescension?

This article is all kinds of horrifying. ... "We are just going through the motions cuz we gotta. Kind of like plunging the toilet."?

Maybe you should go read a book like "Lovers in marriage" before you go trying to write anymore marriage advice.

Or, you know, you can make time for each other because this is the most important person in your life. Instead of making excuses.

I could go on.

I did not set the tone, here, and I stand by my comment.

"You might find this astonishing, but: other marriages are not like yours" does seem pretty condescending. If you're going to comment here, please be more civil than that.

Fair point, I've edited the comment to clean it up.

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