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Comment by timthelion | Hacker News Reader

How dystopian. Its ironic, how as technology improves, things often get worse, because the cheapest, worse, solution becomes too cheep, and reasonable solutions cannot compete. It is no harder for us, today, to install windows in prefab buildings, than it was 10 years ago, but the windowless shipping container has gotten so cheep, that the window becomes a considerable cost. It is like how 30 years ago, most businesses had a telephone line and was easy to contact but today, the idea of having an actual telephone line and secretaries to answer the phone seems "too expensive". It wasn't any cheaper back then though.

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> How dystopian

You're objecting to an aesthetic, not frankly anything of substance. Very few restaurant kitchens are particularly pleasant places to work, often cramped (because they take up square feet in prime real estate) and very hot. Three staff in a container seems comparatively spacious.

Also, when The Guardian struggles to find other fault than temperature and lack of appropriate council permits, that's about as strong a confirmation of adequate working conditions you're likely to find.

Oh, if the work conditions are usually terrible than I guess it's fine.

A related article [1] suggests there's "room for six or seven chefs" which sounds like a rather more cramped setup than three. One wonders, given they don't seem to have bothered with planning permission, whether any consideration's been given to fire safety either.

1: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/08/deliveroo-b...

Are there really fire safety concerns in such small spaces?

Working beside a pizza oven, gas stoves and hot cooking oil? I guess the concern is "if it catches fire, you're dead" but it's still an issue...

Edit: small spaces and hot cooking oil, youch - have the restaurants employing these chefs told their insurers that they're doing this?

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/bikini-barista-die...

Yes.

they don't seem to have bothered with planning permission

Temporary structures typically fall under different regulations. This is true in almost any market globally. (Source: Half of my family are architects and my brother is an urban design expert, which is sort of like privatized city planning)

I was going from this quote from the article I linked to:

> Cllr Mark Williams, cabinet member for regeneration and new homes, said: “The council is concerned by Deliveroo’s use of the Valmar Road trading estate as their kitchen pods are close to people’s homes, are clearly disturbing the residents and they didn’t apply for the necessary planning permission.

> “We have served a planning enforcement notice that requires Deliveroo to stop preparing and delivering food from the site. We encourage them to work with us and listen to local residents so that we can find a long-term solution.” Southwark is also investigating the setup of three Deliveroo pods in a car park in east Dulwich.

But yeah, I'd anticipate a temporary construction would be regulated differently. How temporary are these though? (in anything other than a "if the locals get a bit too bothersome, we'll move it to a different borough" sense).

If it doesn't have foundations and/or simply floats on a slab, it's generally considered temporary. I wonder about the utilities, though. The more you have connected, the less argument you have for temporary. The mention of gas bottles suggest they're playing this smart.

> The mention of gas bottles suggest they're playing this smart.

Or that a gas company has zero interest in (or desire to?) establish a gas line to a shipping container, let alone one with an industrial kitchen in it.

Perhaps. Actually I was referring to the possible use of portable gas vs. electricity. In the top image it seems the left-side container may be an emergency power unit with fuel based generators.

Strange that the kitchen would disturb them, but not the highway above the kitchen.

> How dystopian.

What exactly seems dystopian?

The author sure was trying hard to dramatize these micro kitchens, describing them in commically over-the-top ways - "dark kitchens" near highway overpasses evokes thoughts of secret interrogation sites. But what actual, tangible aspects of these kitchens seems dystopian or bad?

Overall they seem like a great trend. Small-scale infill development can reduce traffic and pollution while also creating a better experience for restaurant customers - more food available with faster delivery times.

It does sound like in at least one case planning regulations were not being accurately followed. That's not good. And maybe some kitchen environments weren't very good. Individual restaurants violating labor laws should be punished, and/or regulations should be updated if there are special considerations needed for these micro-kitchens. (The lack of windows though is probably because they need to use wall space for storage and equipment and not a way to save money; it's also not necessarily a big deal in a small building if you can leave the door open.)

At the end of the day I'm just not seeing how urban infill micro-kitchens are a terrible dystopian trend.

> what actual, tangible aspects of these kitchens seems dystopian or bad?

Car exhaust floating in to the kitchen through the open doors.

If you've ever lived in an apartment with a balcony near a freeway, you'll know why I'd never eat food prepared in that environment.

Is it different from a restaurant near a busy road, or by the side of a highway?

The micro-kitchen location shown in the photo at the top of the article was near a highway. I doubt all of them are in locations exactly like that.

I'm curious, do restaurant kitchens usually have exterior windows? My mental image of them (surely mostly from TV) is not of a place with plenty of natural light.

I've watched a lot of Food TV and I can't recall ever seeing windows in any professional kitchen.

I suppose depends on the country? In Austria employees are generally entitled to natural light through an actual window (must be possible to see outside). Exceptions are only granted to places only open at night and a few other exceptions like stores underground.

I worked in an industrial kitchen and there was no windows. There was a loading dock that was closed unless it was in use.

Strictly speaking loading docks are not supposed to directly front on to food preparation or fresh food storage areas as exhaust fumes can be detected in foods by blind taste panels. (Source: Recent research on facility design for http://infinite-food.com/)

Have you worked in a fast food kitchen? Or any restaurant kitchen? It's windowless and greasy and often surrounded by a parking lot close to a busy road.

I also had classes as a child in buildings called 'portables' which look pretty similar to these things, except with windows and a normal classroom interior.

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