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Comment by tw1010 | Hacker News Reader

I live in a country outside the US (not China) but every time people from the US talk about us they have this same story, which seems to come from US news sources, which is nowhere close to what is actually going on. That makes me wonder, is the same thing going on for China? I keep hearing on HN this same story "China is anti-democratic and anti-innovation, nothing interesting goes on there". But how much of that is actual truth, backed by facts, and how much is just the same story propogated amongst the population, but rarely double checked?

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Americans tend to have difficulty believing that others can possibly have different values. Part of the core of American beliefs is that Democracy is the natural state for all nations; and I'm not sure that's entirely true. It feels like there is a tipping point of population size where an individualistic society just tramples over the tragedy of the commons, and collectivist societies introduce controls and social pressures to prevent it.

I expect World War 3 will eventually be fought over these differences; they are just too irreconcilable and eventually the Chinese are going to feel the need to impose some limits on the US -- likely over environmental issues. China will feel the need to "save the planet from US ignorance" once they feel they have the power to do so, and the US will disagree that they have the power, so China will have to prove it militarily.

> Part of the core of American beliefs is that Democracy is the natural state for all nations; and I'm not sure that's entirely true.

And that's funny because if there is something that the US is not it is a democracy. It is at best a partial democracy where votes from different individuals count very different towards the outcome and where there is a huge and concerted effort at the repression of certain groups of voters.

I am always genuinely curious about the statement "Americans tend to have difficulty believing that others can possibly have different values". I always think about the different types of cultures and living situations Americans tend to find themselves in and "around" compared to a country such as China who clearly has a clear set of cultural values and norms. It's almost as if having a value system outside of the norm of the Chinese is deemed inherently contrasting where as in America having a different value system is in part of American "culture". How can americans not be aware of different values when topics like gun control, healthcare, education, etc are freely discussed in the open? Are they not representing different values?

Those are all topics that America agrees are fine to debate about. There are other ways of being that most Americans would unanimously be against, or merely not even consider.

Americans tend to be insular. A very low percentage of Americans have a passport.

The healthcare debate is actually a good example. It’s entirely uninformed by how systems work elsewhere. As a foreigner it’s baffling to watch.

I forget the article I read this in, but basically here in the US there is a large percentage of the population with a "strict father" worldview (i.e. its up to each individual to save themselves so nobody gets a handout), while in China it's much more of a "nurturing parent" worldview (i.e. the most important thing is to take care of everyone rather than to ensure equality).

I think this is a good example, but I have a hard time understanding the "strict father" worldview. When political parties (left + democrats) tend to have agendas around welfare/public "handouts". Hopefully you can see what the nurturing parent value system can give you (as you said in another comment, father-head == dictator). I agree in some sense around the individualism aspect, I don't think however its complete with a "strict father" mentality.

Pretty sure you're talking about George Lakoff[0] and the "strict father : U.S. :: nurturant parent : China" is something you made up in your head.

0: https://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lako...

There was another article I read recently that made that connection; but that article did reference George Lakoff.

Not quite sure how WW3 works exactly between nuclear powers. Proxy cyber wars? Dumping US bonds? That is not really military action. Have people just forgot there are thousands of nuclear weapons ready to go at a moments notice?

> Have people just forgot there are thousands of nuclear weapons ready to go at a moments notice?

I don't know if people have forgot about them, but I am pretty sure many - maybe most - have forgotten (or just don't want to contemplate) what kind of damage they can unleash, both immediately and over the long term - should a full global exchange occur.

> I expect World War 3 will eventually be fought over these differences

Only if war from general misery due to overpopulation and ecological collapse doesn't get us first. I hate thinking about the future.

You're under the mistaken impression that people in the U.S. care about what is happening in other countries. At most like 10% care in anything more than a cursory way.

Democracy and Capitalism have worked really well for us, so yes, there is a bias towards these ideas and a desire to share them.

I think it's mainly about perspective. Two people can take the same facts and based on their values, see the story in two different ways.

For example, a medication that has a 70% success rate can be seen as risky or not risky, depending on the person.

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