New Amazon Kindle announced: $139 WiFi-only, $189 3G, available August 27th | Hacker News Reader

New Amazon Kindle announced: $139 WiFi-only, $189 3G, available August 27th

engadget.com

71 pointsssclafani89 comments

I love my Kindle and this is awesome news. For all of you on the fence, here's why I recommend everyone buy a Kindle (haven't used a Nook, but I think most of these points apply):

1. You will read more.

2. The reading experience will be better than you think--there was a 1-2 day adjustment period for me. After that, I didn't even notice I wasn't reading paper and ink.

3. You can highlight and make notes in books that are actually usable. Remember post-its, bookmarks, notes in the margins? I loved to mark-up books, but never pulled them out again to reference what I wrote. Now I have all of my highlights in one place. I can even highlight a passage and share it on Twitter or Facebook (if you have 3G, then you can do this while sitting on the beach!)

4. I have all of my books with me via my phone. I just read Moneyball and wanted to share a quote with a friend. I was able to open up the Kindle app and presto, I'm able to share it with them.

5. I am more mobile (I have less stuff). Instead of buying books to collect them, I am buying them to consume them. Others may not have this problem, but I did.

5. Did I mention you will read more?! If you like reading and have ever set a goal to read more, please buy a Kindle. If a friend recommends a book to you during the day, you can download it while sitting in a comfy chair when you get home, and can be reading it seconds later.

Most of the arguments about whether or not to buy a Kindle center on the price. At $140, it is well worth it when you consider the additional amount of reading you will do. You will learn more, you will read more books, it will be worth it!

Why is a Kindle better than an iPad?

I have both. I've had iPads for about a month, and a Kindle for about 2 weeks. I assume you are asking why it is better specifically for reading since comparing the two generally is like comparing a notebook and an MP3 player. They're just not analogous in general, but for reading purposes the Kindle is vastly superior to the iPad.

I actually read the same book on both this past weekend flipping back and forth. The iPad has a slick UI for books, though the page flipping can be a bit finicky,but it's still a back-lit LCD (albeit a nice one) which is just uncomfortable for long reading. It's the same uncomfortable feeling you get from staring at a monitor for a long time.

The Kindle is also much lighter, which is nicer than you'd think when you're holding it for a couple hours at a clip. The iPad is surprisingly heavy, which is such a common complaint that I imagine Apple will address it in the next generation.

The Kindle's battery is good enough that I suspect you could read a few books on one charge if you kept the wireless antenna off. You could go on a weekend trip without taking a charger, which is nice. The iPad's battery is actually pretty good for what it is, and is probably why the thing is so damn heavy, but you'll still be charging it every night.

The iPad's screen is AMAZINGLY smudgy. I can't describe how bad it is in that regard. The smudges add a slight blurring effect to text which gets annoying. We have 5 of them in the office and everyone has complained about it. I got an Invisible Shield screen protector for them, which helps a lot (and I could also take a key to it without scratching) but adds its own annoyances.

E-ink is really unbeatable for reading. You would love a Kindle I think. How many books do you read a year?

“It's the same uncomfortable feeling you get from staring at a monitor for a long time.”

— I don’t get that, your mileage may vary. (The Kindle is probably still what you should get if you read a lot.)

I think that some people don't get eyestrain using a monitor because their eyes jump around and off of it continually throughout the day. The eye motions and strain of reading is fairly different when you read word after word, line after line for 1/2 hour or more.

An analogy would be saying your arms don't get sore picking up a book but actually you're picking up a book 100 or more times in a row. Your arm will get tired.

>smudges

Just use a shirt to wipe it down. Works for me.

Over 300 words and you pick on the smudging part. I think the main point of the Kindle versus iPad argument is twofold: 1) the e-ink is remarkably better to read and 2) the battery life allows for more reading than the iPad allows.

I have the nook and I cannot see myself without it. eBooks are great for people who want a device to read books on.

Well he didn't say anything I disagreed with. If you want my opinion, take a look at this article

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/mobile/07/26/ipad.universit...

>Students at Reed College complained of the slow refresh rate of e-Ink displays, problematic input, inability to load PDFs over the network, and inability to view more than one text at a time as major sticking points. Reed faculty found converting documents to work well on the Kindle to be particularly difficult in most cases.

>Students participating in the test at Darden School of Business, while loving the Kindle for personal reading, overwhelmingly felt the Kindle didn't pass muster in its current state for academic use -- about 4 out of 5 would not recommend a Kindle DX to incoming MBA students.

I came to that exact conclusion after using a kindle DX for a few months. Additionally, battery life & weight don't really bother me. It's lighter than most textbooks, & I don't mind putting it to charge right before I go to sleep. I spend a lot of time looking at LCDs anyway, so that isn't a problem.

Ugh, yes, the smudges drive me nuts.

E-ink is still a much better screen for reading text than the iPad's LCD. Not only does it perform much better in sunlight, but the lack of a backlight reduces eyestrain substantially (the Kindle iPad app has an option to use white text on a black background, which helps a little but nto completely). Back when I wasn't working on a startup I would often spend several hours at a time reading books on my Kindle, but that would be much more painful on my iPad.

Some formats are better on an iPad: periodicals (which can use more rich media and images), and technical books (code and diagrams render better, and the faster screen makes it much easier to flip through reference books). But if you spend lots of time reading books cover-to-cover, Kindle is easily the best device.

So if you read more technical/reference type books than fiction, would everyone recommend the iPad?

I would, yes. Especially over the vanilla Kindle. At least the Kindle DX would support full-size PDF's without panning. But I still think the delay in page-turn times on e-ink would give iPad the edge.

I was trying to decide between a Kindle DX and an iPad for reading PDFs. Ended up going with Kindle, and I'm loving it so far. The page turn delay has been much criticized, but it's actually faster than the older eink readers, even with the bigger screen.

And the text looks beautiful. No comparison to LCD is even possible. When I got my Kindle, I thought there was a piece of paper stuck to the screen telling me to go plug it in. That was actually an image on the screen.

But I'll concede that an iPad would have more functionality.

The iPad is better for technical books, with giant flaw. The screen shuts itself off pretty quickly. It's annoying to have it turn itself off while you have a page up you want to reference. It does this even in its dock. It's not enough to drive me back to a real book + book stand yet, but it's definitely annoying.

Check your auto-lock in General settings.

red or green letters on a black screen would be even less of an eyestrain.

That explains why Bloomberg terminals have that strange color scheme.

I gave my 1st gen Kindle to my sister about 2 months ago and have been reading on an iPad ever since. I still preordered this Kindle because:

1) The active area on the iPad screen is a giant pain. Any touch ends up triggering... something, and when I'm reading I tend to shift around quite a bit. It's amazing how often I unintentionally bring up menus, change pages, etc.

2) Lighter is better. The weight of the iPad makes it a little ungainly for reading. The Kindle is easily held in one hand.

3) Better page changes: I can read the Kindle with my one hand and click the next page button without having to move around. On the iPad, I have to hold with one hand and change pages with the other.

4) e-ink. I prefer reading on it. Even in the dark I'd rather use a booklight and e-ink thank the iPad screen.

5) Portability: my kindle is always in my laptop bag. The Amazon case for it makes it almost a no brainer to toss in and go. I'm much less likely to drag my iPad somewhere. I'm afraid to break it. :)

6) "Free" 3g is ridiculously useful to when I want to get new books.

When it comes down to it, I really just want the best reading experience I can possibly get. The Kindle is designed specifically for that and they've done a pretty good job with it. I've read a ridiculous amount of books since I first got one and slowed down when I switched to reading on the iPad full time. It's just ungainly.

It's lighter and smaller. This makes it easier to carry around and less of a strain on my hands to use. It probably comes down to personal preference, though.

One thing about the iPad that really turned me off was that I tried to read it in direct sunlight and it was hard to see. It also overheated, so I had to turn it off. Real bummer for me, as I love reading out on my deck while I get some sun.

I don't know that it's better but it's a quarter of the price of my iPad during a period of penny pinching.

1. A more naturaL reading experience to the eye. 2. Less stressful. after spending the day in front of a computer and tv, you wouldn't want to strain you eyes while reading i guess. 3.Battery life.

The longest I've read in one session on the Kindle was about 2-3 hours (typical for me if I'm reading fiction). After reading for that long, my eyes are a little sore, but the strain isn't signifcantly different from reading a paper and ink novel. I haven't read a complete book on the iPad, but from what I've seen of the screen, I think there would be significantly more eyestrain.

Maybe someone who has read a couple of books on the iPad can commment?

I've read a couple of books on an iPad (most recently Shogun, which is >1000 pages, and several smaller novels). I've also had an extended play with a Kindle. The Kindle is kinder on the eyes, but not to the point where it makes a practical difference to me.

I think people might look at a laptop display and from there decide that LCDs are awful for reading from (this was my opinion). But the iPad is a significantly better reading device than, say, a laptop, because you get much more control over where the display goes in relation to your face. This sounds like an obvious thing to say but it does seem to make a big difference.

To relate back to your reading experience: I was reading Shogun in 2-hour sessions (or longer) and didn't notice any eyestrain.

I turn the backlight down as low as it can go and read in 30min-2hr chunks. I haven't tried a Kindle for any real length of time because of the page change slowness (has that improved in recent models?) Anyway, i didnt find the eye strain to be bad, but I spend all day staring at a monitor so what is normal for me might not be normal for others.

- Epaper is easy on the eyes

- If your book could stream YouTube you would probably be less inclined to read

- Kindle is loads lighter and smaller in other dimensions too so the form factor is more like that of a typical paperback

- Lower barrier to entry (lower cost, no requirement for data plan for on the go data)

Actually it becomes evident that the iPad and Kindle serve different markets. When else would you compare two things that differ in price 3-4 fold?

From what I understand of the tech specs of both (not an owner of either) the Kindle has a special screen unique to modern e-book readers that mimics the paper-ink reaction to light (i.e. more light is more readable) rather than the iPad's backlit LCD which produces glare under more light.

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_Ink

Beyond that, why is a kindle better than my phone?

* I'm not going to take a kindle to the bathroom at work, I am taking my phone.

* The page turning is instant and effortless on my phone, not so on the kindle.

* With white text on a black background on the phone, I can read in more situations more easily than on the kindle, and with less eye-strain.

I tried reading a book on my phone a while back. I read for about 40 minutes and then spent the next hour or so convinced that I was permanently cross-eyed.

Seriously though--maybe my eyes are weaker than most, but I just can handle the screen and have yet to meet someone who can read for an hour or two at a time without significant eyestrain.

Were you doing black text on white, or white text on black? Switching to the latter was what made the difference for me. I've read for many continuous hours on my phone.

I haven't tried that but I'll give it a shot.

I also found that it really helped to have a serif font, and relatively small type, say 15 lines per page in landscape mode.

That's my issue with phone reading. I can't just pick up any arbitrary pdf and read it comfortably, it has to be specially-formatted, or else you have to side-scroll and all that annoying stuff. And the pdf's I want to read are rarely formatted right.

You'll find that to be a big problem with any ebook reader except perhaps the kindle DX. I feel your pain though. I looked for months for an ideal ebook reader for academic papers, and concluded that such a product didn't yet exist.

The battery life is nutty, you don't even need to pack the charger when you go on vacation. Having my phone go dark because I was reading a book on it earlier is a bum out.

Because if you are only using it for reading you only spend about 1/4 as much.

You can buy 3 for the same price and always have 2 spare ones?

Totally. I read 2.5 books in my first week of owning it. I'm only even on the net tonight because I accidentally left it at work :(.

My wife wants to use it, but every time she comes near I snarl and pet it and call it my precioussssessss.

Since I moved to Japan, I had very little access to good english books, and the access I did have was rather expensive.

Before buying the kindle, I had read maybe 5 english books in the last 5 years. With the kindle, I read over 15 books in the first month.

My eyes get strained out reading books on my iphone or monitor, but really the eink feels just reading like actual paper.

I'm always surprised by people comparing the ipad and kindle, as in my mind and LCD screen just can't compare to the ease of reading eink.

For me, the personal benefits of reading more and better books (vs. whatever magazines or mediocre books are lying around) more than cover the costs.

I wouldn't consider the Kindle an iPad replacement at all (I have both, and sometimes read books on the iPad in the Kindle App, but only when I want to use backlighting to avoid disturbing anyone nearby in a dark room)

If I were Amazon, I'd bundle the Kindle with books, maybe in the form of a rebate -- if a user buys ~10 books in a year, he gets a $100 credit on a Kindle he has already bought.

I can't tolerate the jarring flash to black (pixel reset) that occurs when changing pages on e-ink devices. Has this limitation been overcome?

According to Engadget it's faster but I guess it will still have the flash to black.

"The new handheld...has a 20 percent faster refresh rate on its E Ink (yep, still E Ink) screen"

"The screen will remain the same 6-inch size as the last two Kindles, though the company claims page turns are faster and contrast is improved."

$130 is a really compelling price point. The NY Times charges $20/month to access their Kindle edition ($240/year). What they should do is offer a 2-year contract and throw a Kindle in for free.

I personally hate this model, but it's been proven effective (at least in the U.S.) for cell phones sales.

They would now be a lot better off buying Kindle's for as many of their dead-tree customers as they can and switching them over to digital delivery. They have less than a million daily subscribers (so that's just $130m for the Kindles) and spend $240m a year in raw materials. Gobs more for the staff. Of course they would need to figure out advertising, but they would need to sell less of it with the lowered printing/delivery costs.

Not an original idea, but now a lot more financially sound: http://www.businessinsider.com/2009/1/printing-the-nyt-costs...

You're not accounting for newsstand revenue. If they went all digital, newsstand revenue would disappear. If they didn't go all digital, they wouldn't spend all $240 million on paper subscribers. So either way it's not a fair comparison.

nyt also has a kindle subscription which is basically their rss feed in a nicer format. it's like $2/month. i liked that one better because i found it difficult to navigate their full subscription version and never read all of the articles anyway.

</lurk>I have a launch Kindle 2. I love the device for all of the same reasons that minouye listed. I never had any problems with it until this past weekend. I turned on the 3G and hit the 'sync/update' option. I knew that it was going to download and install the newer 2.5 update (which added the long-needed 'collections' feature which allows you to arbitrarily group your books). Well it bricked the device. I'm not sure how it happened. I was well outside (~6 months) the 1 yr warranty. I called them up and they overnighted a brand-new K2 at no cost. (At least it looks brand-new, it could be a really well-preserved refurb). That kind of experience is why I really like Amazon and the Kindle. I don't know if I have any reason to upgrade for myself, but at $140 I think this is getting into gift range for my Mom and the in-laws for Xmas. (just registered to tell this story... long-time lurker)

I'll also add that the Kindle shows up as a USB-connected storage device so you don't need special drivers or software (MS-only etc) to drop files on it. That was a big concern for me when I originally was researching eInk devices because I don't have any Windows boxes at home.

The world of reading is about to change. $139 is not quite Seth Godin's suggestion for a "paperback" device, but it's still very affordable. At this price point, I think that many relatively tech savvy readers will end up buying one simply because they can.

Seth Godin's reaction: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2010/07/here-comes-t...

Now this is starting to get closer to a sweet spot. I'm curious if E-Ink is starting to lower their licensing costs now that there's a lot more competition in the space, or if manufacturing the screens is just becoming cheaper.

Design looks more polished too.

At that price, I'd be tempted to get one for situations where I would worry about my iPad. I'd consider taking a $139 kindle to the beach. I'm terrified of taking my iPad.

Not to mention you'll actually be able to see the Kindle's screen at the beach.

Finally back and forward buttons on both sides. And I've always been rather satisfied with the page turning speed, especially compared to the nook, so if that got even faster… I'm tempted to sell my old one now.

If the increased speed of the e-ink translates to a better browser, the 3G model might finally be a good HHGTTG replacement for travelers (Con against the iPad: roaming charges). Even better if the developer program would finally take off and someone would make a dedicated Wikipedia app.

Interesting that there's only a $50 premium for the 3G Kindle, whereas the 3G iPad is an additional $130 over the Wifi model.

Different licensing agreements? Amazon taking a loss? Typical Apple markup?

Not only that, you need a separate data plan for the iPad, right?

iSuppli estimates that 3G radio adds about $25 to the cost of iPad (http://www.isuppli.com/teardowns-manufacturing-and-pricing/n...) so at $50, I'd imagine that Amazon's probably recouping the cost of baseband hardware + development time and effort, and not much else.

It's amazing to think that they can throw in the free 3G access on top on the hardware for just $50 extra. I guess they're counting on low browser and web usage due to the e-ink screen...

> It's amazing to think that they can throw in the free 3G access on top on the hardware for just $50 extra. I guess they're counting on low browser and web usage due to the e-ink screen...

I think that's subsidized by the increased amount of books people buy when they can buy them anytime anywhere but only through Amazon.

Web browsing on the kindle is painful enough that I'd only use it for emergencies.

I'd imagine the web usage is probably a LOT heavier on an iPad than a Kindle (at least, I use it a lot more on my iPad than I do my Kindle... :)).

Yeah, more wear and tear on the 3G chips, so Apple had to put extra-enforced chips in there.

I haven't enabled 3G on my iPad because I'm usually near wifi these days. I can't imagine that a 3G Kindle is necessary for too many people. The extra cost is your first 4 books.

It's not really necessary for anyone, but it is quite a nice luxury. I was at the beach last week and a friend (a highschool English teacher) recommended a novel that she teaches her students ("The Sparrow" by Mary Doria Russell; it's great so far). I was so intrigued by her explanation of it that I bought it then and there, sitting on the beach, and started reading it 30 seconds later. So I expect that those who can afford it will.

That said, I keep the 3G off when I'm not using it, because it tears through the battery, even when the Kindle's off(!) so that it can always receive new subscriptions.

When you are done reading a book on the Kindle can you loan it to a friend? (the book, not the whole Kindle!)

When I saw the new price point, I actually briefly considered buying a $139 model so I could loan the whole Kindle (and my whole electronic library) to a friend...

Then again, I bought a paperback book yesterday specifically because I knew I would be reading it and passing it on. This really is the biggest sore point for e-readers.

I also don't like this about the Kindle, but I must admit I am intrigued since I installed the Kindle Android app and found a lot of classics for free. So it might be worth getting just for the free books alone. (Obviously you should be able to "share" the free books).

Haven't you seen the ads ? - that sort of things funds terrorism and drug dealing !

I have a Nook. I chose it over the Kindle for two reasons: Micro-SD card support, and ePub support. The 4Gb internal memory in the Kindle 3 largely eliminates the need for memory expansion. The lack of epub is the deal-breaker for me.

A Nook can read any epub from any store supporting the Adobe Digital Editions DRM. To my knowledge, this is all of them, including Sony. Of course, if the epub is DRM-free it will work as well.

epub is an open format. It is mostly HTML/CSS, with support for embedded fonts and a normalized system for storing images, meta-data, etc. It is widely being supported by various open source tools. Google is making their public domain books available as ePubs (quality varies).

Topaz and Mobi are proprietary formats. Kindle is the only reader of note using them. They can be converted to epub if the DRM is broken (possible, but YMMV), but it is often a time-consuming process, and thus not worth it.

If the new Kindle would support epub, it would be a hands-down winner. But, of course, that would mean that people are able to purchase books from sources other than Amazon.

Since the Nook runs Android, I am hoping some clever person figures out a way to hack the Kindle for Android app to run on the Nook. Best of both worlds.

Can anyone give me their take on viewing PDFs with the non-DX Kindle?

I've been seriously thinking about getting one. I read through reports and ebooks pretty heavily and my chief concern is that if I bought a Kindle I'd end up reading mangled PDFs where the formatting gets distorted to accomodate the smaller screen size.

Formatting is fine. PDF was designed for that very purpose anyway.

Zooming and generally navigating a PDF is a huge pain. Screen refreshes are slow. Much like navigating through a plot on a graphics calculator.

PDF reading is a good extra, don't expect too much. I convert all text heavy, non-technical books using "calibre" to the PRC format. Works well enough for reading for pleasure.

(PS. I have a Kindle 2. Received it a few weeks ago)

In short, it is 100% functional but if you plan on reading a lot of PDF's, look to the DX.

thanks. That is what I thought.

I think at the DX price point I might instead opt for an iPad.

The format does not get distorted. Before the 2.5 update, you were restricted to viewing the pdf in a landscape view at page width. So if you have an A4 sized doc, it would take about 2-2.5 'nexts' to get through a page. It was readable and I read a number of journal articles and programming books that way, but it was a less than ideal experience.

Post-2.5 allows you to zoom pdfs and pan.

Frankly, I don't know why someone would choose this over reading on your smart phone. (Assuming you have a smart phone.)

I bought a nook, but then returned it after discovering that its pdf support sucked, and that I could read much more easily using Aldiko on my nexus. I find e-ink screens to actually be much worse for reading compared with white text on a black background on a hi-res LCD/OLED. The page turning time is a deal-breaker compared with a smart phone. That e-ink KACHUNKA every time gives me a headache for some reason.

To me, battery life seems like the only selling point.

It's very interesting that Amazon has gone with a WebKit-based browser.

Why?

For one thing, Ibis Reader is a web app that allows reading of ePubs. Imagine now being able to also read ePub on the Kindle.

Even though I bought my Kindle less than a year ago, I am considering switching to the new version. All my wishes are fulfilled in this version:

* WiFi support = blog access, web browser, full content in subscriptions and hopefully lower prices for international users

* better contrast (I found Kindle2's contrast lacking)

* Even lighter

* Better Forward/Backward buttons positioning

* Improved PDF support

Oh, and I love the dark color ;-)

...and the 3G version is going to have free worldwide web browsing included? (some people in Europe are saying so)

I want an e-reader, but I want to read technical (coding) PDFs etc. I'm told this will be inconvenient at a screen this size and that I should get the Kindle DX.

Hopefully they announce a massive price drop on the DX as well (preferably before I visit the USA in December)

They just did recently.

$379 is still too expensive, all I want is the base wifi kindle with a few inches more screen area

I got on of these for $149 (NZ) and it does the trick. Same display technology as the kindle anyway.

http://www.koboereader.com/

In Canada they are also $150 but Canadian dollars (like $200 NZ) isn't it built in Canada?

yes I think they are built in Canada. Actually I just checked online and it looks like the NZ price is $295. Maybe I just forgot how much it actually cost.

Dang, it still has that terrible D-pad. Looks nice otherwise, but I hope they go back to the silver ribbon for v4; it's so much nicer.

Another case where tethering makes sense.

Does anybody have any good/killer reasons to recommend the 3G over the wifi-only?

The only thing I used the 3G in my Kindle for was when I was in Egypt. Rather than hunt down a wifi signal for our netbook, I could check my gmail and post to twitter from my Kindle. I was on a train between Cairo and Luxor and posting to Twitter about how I'm on a train in BFE. I was telling friends about camping in the white desert from my Kindle.

Completely free of charge, in the middle of the Egyptian desert. That was definitely worth it.

If you don't travel so much, save $50 and get the wifi-only version.

It saves me quite a bit of money.

I never buy books until I'm sure I want to read them. When I first got my kindle, I bought more than one book at once, and I regretted it.

Now I keep a backlog of sample books on my kindle. When I finish my current book, I can pick something from the many sample books I have, and if I like what i read, I buy it right then.

Of course, I tend to carry my kindle quite a bit out and about when killing time (auto shop, kids swim lessons, etc)

Only the convenience factor, which could be a good reason, but I wouldn't call it killer. 3G is still easier to find than free wifi.

That said, I'm using the original Kindle 2 (uses Sprint's network) in Norway, so effectively I have no wireless option at all, and I've survived just fine.

Damn. I may have just talked myself out of the 3G version.

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