Comment by njarboe | Hacker News Reader

Comment by njarboe | Hacker News Reader

As a research geologist, working in the western US has generally been great because of so much easy access to a large amount of public land. But, over the last 5 years or so, I have noticed more ranchers gating off roads going through their land. This is especially annoying when they have a small in-holding in a national forest or BLM land and the road that has been used for over 100 years is now blocked. Most times there is a new (closed, but not locked(that would be illegal)) gate and a big sign that says no trespassing.

One can legally open the gate and use the road and it won't be trespassing, but most people won't know this. Even if you think you are in the right in going onto someones land, confronting an armed rancher is something most people will not risk doing. I generally don't. It would be nice if there were signs that made it clear that it is legal to pass through such gates, but I imagine they would be removed by the ranchers immediately. I'm glad at least some forest service employees are pushing back on this practice.

Should it be illegal to put up 'no trespassing' signs when there is clearly a longstanding public easement?

I think it should be illegal. At the same time, it would be nice if the Forest Service would place signs on these trails clarifying that access is allowed and list the contact information for the proper authorities. That would, however, be expensive and the land owners would no doubt remove the signs.

Removing the signs would be theft of government property, and is punishable by up to one year in jail.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/641

Edit: I'm happy to hang out in an old pickup truck with a coffee and a shotgun and wait for someone to steal the signs. Just point me in the right direction and give me a number to call with the forestry service, national parks, or the bureau of land management when someone snags a sign.

That implies enforcement, which is mostly right back to where we are now. I really wish it were so simple.

You would really need a camera to watch the sign. Solar powered with satellite up-link. Then a camera to watch the camera. So, not really practical when there is nobody around 99.99% of the time.

they cant even catch people breaking into hundreds of cars a year at popular trail heads... under staffing is a PITA.

I don't have much hope for that if there's not even anything done for people effectively doing the same on land they do not own [0].

[0]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/02/california-w...

I imagine it is, but they put up the signs on the fences on both sides of the road, which is their property and it is illegal to trespass. IANAL, but on undeveloped land in the US you have to put up 'no trespassing' signs generally before enforcing people not to trespass on your land.

I reality the ranchers(in reality they are usually rich sport ranchers that live in a city and recently bought the property) don't even need the closed gate in most cases. If you are in the middle of nowhere going down a dirt road and you come up to a fence that crosses the road with a cattle guard and on both sides of the road it say no trespassing, what do you do?

Interestingly, some states don't require signs - purple paint will do.

http://ijr.com/2016/02/535003-purple-paint-texas/

Assuming a 'no trespassing sign.'

Closed gate with no lock, can't pass.

Closed gate with locked lock, can't pass.

Closed gate with unlocked lock, can pass.

"Closed gate with unlocked lock, can pass." Never seen one of those.

Usually a cattle guard means no gate at all.

Something being blatantly illegal never stopped anybody from taking from the public easement. There's a pretty infamous little county road that the locals stole near Silicon Valley.

http://blog.sfgate.com/bicycle/2016/03/22/road-thieves-of-th...

Thanks for that link. I'm just starting to explore the biking roads around here and the history is interesting.

Nice to know that you protect public way just by enjoying it!

Some of these are intentionally deemed "not easements" by the government because it would make them responsible for maintenance.

I once called the Bureau of Land Management about repairing a dirt roads they liked to use that crossed private land. They made it crystal clear that it was an "abandoned mining trail" and not actually a road or easement, which in their mind relieved them of any obligation.

That just means that a private mining company built the road to access a mining claim. Once the claim is abandoned, no one has the obligation to maintain it.

If you used it to access your land, you could start maintaining it.

Probably, but I've seen a few signs that we're polite and clear about what was public and what was private.

this is my understanding of easements and closed roads too... a rancher bought some land near my home that has a trail crossing it to public lands that are encompassed by private land. he pulled a weapon on me and was investigated for brandishing and was set straight about his approach to dealing with people using public access, since it was there when he bought the land and it was well known.

ranchers can carry guns, but so can just about anyone else out west.

some folks i know just take the misleading no trespassing signs down. i've also seen where people attach them to trees surrounding good public hunting too, to prevent others from getting their trophies.

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