Neom – an entire new land, purpose-built for a new way of living
discoverneom.com
discoverneom.com
>THE TERM “INDEPENDENT SYSTEMS” IS A LITTLE AMBIGUOUS. WHAT EXACTLY WILL THE PROJECT BE, A FREE ZONE, TRANSIT ZONE, ETC.?
The project will be developed within a specialized zone, independent of the Kingdom’s existing governmental framework, excluding sovereign laws, in regards to taxation, customs, labor laws, and other legal parameters pertaining to business. As such, a zone within an independent system gives industry the ability to manufacture and provide, goods and services at globally competitive prices.
>WHAT DOES “EXCLUDING SOVEREIGN” MEAN?
“Sovereign laws” refer to everything related to the military sector, foreign policy, and sovereign decisions – all of which will remain at the government of Saudi Arabia’s discretion.
Yeah, that'll be a no from me dawg. It's certainly an interesting project, but I doubt it will draw the kind of international appeal they are hoping for. Dubai 2.0 basically.
Completely uninteresting otherwise. Just go to any trendy city.
Where's my libertarian utopia??
The moon, if Heinlein was right.
That doesn't sound very libertarian.
Will it be possible to have sex slaves? Kill people just for pleasure? Make things that would only be possible in westworld?
Maybe start talking about petroleum era going away when say, 10% of vehicles in US are running on electricity?
Whether they will be successful at creating a semi-utopian city is another story. I expect it to have the same warts as the rest of the region in regards to migrant labor, human rights and civil rights.
How different is that though? We are bombarded with news about electric cars all the time, but the reality is that we are still a very long way from the world (Remember, US is only 4% of the world's population) embracing electric vehicles.
So while eventually the world is going to move away from petrochemicals, it is too early to say we are anywhere near the end of petroleum era, even from the financial perspective of Saudi Arabia depending on petroleum. Saudi Aramco is a behemoth whose value and cash flow is insane even keeping in mind how the country hemorrhages money by unnecessary expenditure. It's market capitalization is disputed in the range of trillions.
They're going to find the results of all that money very underwhelming unless they secularize the legal system.
I am pretty sure that they will be able to handle the Wahhabis inside their country...they can buy off most of the "scholars" and the behead the rest. But not sure that they can keep the masses happy (revolution?) or that the city will function as planned. $500 Billion is a lot of money and there's plenty of competition. But then, they are desperate.
"“Perhaps I can make an analogy to Go—though chess would work just as well. Because of our history, we Kinakutans are well-versed in both games. At the beginning of the game, the pieces are arranged in a pattern that is simple and easy to understand. But the game evolves. The players make small decisions, one turn at a time, each decision fairly simple in and of itself, and made for reasons that can be easily understood, even by a novice. But over the course of many such turns, the pattern develops such great complexity that only the finest minds—or the finest computers—can comprehend it.” The sultan is gazing down thoughtfully at the Go board as he says this. He looks up and starts making eye contact around the room. “The analogy is clear. Our policies concerning free speech, telecommunications, and cryptography have evolved from a series of simple, rational decisions. But they are today so complex that no one can understand them, even in one single country, to say nothing of all countries taken together.”" - Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon.
A good place to start would be enshrining basic civil liberties and not bombing civilians in a neighboring country.
The point here, then, might be to build an “insulated” city with a more direct power structure, without the involvement of consolidated power-bases like ministries or civic departments. Immigration to the new zone could be filtered to only allow in people that believe more in the lawful rule of the sovereign themselves (maybe with something like a democratically-elected governor in between) than the rule of government as a whole; and then, eventually, a military et al could be raised from that power-base to convert the rest of the country to the “new” model.
I've made a personal decision however to retreat from "realpolitik" like political analyses because it requires me to play mind games about the probable intentions of the decision maker, their constraints, and the possible outcomes of the decision they made.
Holding people to a set of normative values that I believe to be meaningful has been a more useful (if more blunt) meta-construct*
* this conversation has me wondering if it might be time to revisit that position
No, the son and heir apparent (and First Deputy Prime Minister, and Minister of Defense, and...) of the sovereign of a nation state. King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman are not the same person.
> The question now arises: Will the king abdicate the throne and turn power over to the son he clearly trusts? Serious newspapers have raised the possibility. King Salman has already given his son unprecedented power. His nickname is Mr. Everything because he has been given control of the military, the economy (including the oil industry), and even control of the entertainment business. He has been the de facto foreign minister for the last two years, conducting all the important foreign policy issues and visits, including setting up President Donald Trump’s historic visit to the kingdom. He will presumably represent Saudi Arabia at the G-20 meeting in Hamburg.
Salman is 81 and suffers from pre-dementia. The state of his health is a closely guarded secret. He has been very busy this year, with a month-long trip to Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, China, and Japan, plus attending the Arab summit in Jordan, as well as hosting Trump and 50 Muslim leaders. So he, apparently, is capable of being in power for some time to come. His brothers have often lived into their 90s.
> WHAT IS THE NATURE OF THE JUDICIAL AND REGUL ATORY FRAMEWORK THAT WILL GOVERN ALL CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL AFFAIRS IN NEOM?
> NEOM will be the world’s first independent special zone spanning three countries, with a regulatory framework designed to adopt world-class investment laws that support the livelihoods of residents and the development of targeted economic sectors. The special zone will also adopt an autonomous judicial system subject to independent regulations and legislation, which will be drafted by investors in accordance with international best practice. The zone will be independent of the Kingdom’s existing governmental framework, excluding sovereign laws. Social norms in Neom will adopt leading practices to improve standards of livability for its residents and visitors.
and clarifying 'independent systems' a little later:
> The project will be developed within a specialized zone, independent of the Kingdom’s existing governmental framework, excluding sovereign laws, in regards to taxation, customs, labor laws, and other legal parameters pertaining to business. As such, a zone within an independent system gives industry the ability to manufacture and provide, goods and services at globally competitive prices
So it sounds like they at least want to shed the more regressive parts of the traditional Islamic culture in Saudi Arabia to bring in international visitors who are reticent to visit or invest in Saudi Arabia because of the way the laws treat women/homosexuals/etc.
It seems more like they're just dancing around the issue to me. Neom is still under the full control of a Sunni theocracy, it just has separate regulatory structures, like a SEZ in China.
Of course that could all be just fluff and come to nothing but I think they know it's in their own self interest to open up and give this area more autonomy than the special economic zones in China in order to appease and attract investors/tourism without having to change the culture of the actual country.
... but who are still willing to work there and pay taxes to support this very system.
It seems like this is an experiment for KSA to try the same thing, but without upsetting the more traditional members of their population who still believe the way they do things right now is best.
KSA is the biggest country in the Gulf and has the best economy, so they haven’t needed to attract outsiders in the past unlike other countries, but as the end of oil gets closer they are obviously looking to diversify their economy.
I have 12 acre feet of water rights on 58 acres in Montana and its still a lot of work.
(For sale btw: It's fun as a giant playground http://www.eralandmark.com/listings/view/307976)
Could you explain these terms better? How does that work? Thanks!
The poster then can use about 4 million gallons of water per year for his land.
When spread out over this amount of land, that’s about 66% of the amount of water needed for a suburban grass lawn in a hot climate.
One thing though:
> that’s about 66% of the amount of water needed for a suburban grass lawn in a hot climate
I'm not sure how to related to this. If a person wanted to grow food in a hot climate they'd probably build tunnels or shaded houses or some such, or grow olives or some other food plant suited to the conditions, using drip irrigation. Where as a suburban lawn is typically exposed to direct sun light and watered in a typically less than optimal way.
What could possibly go wrong?
- Which religion will be NEOM's?
Everything else comes down from it.
Still probably less controversial than what a truer answer would have been.
One, a conservative, was clearly perturbed by my answer and wanted to convert me, but lacked the English to do so. The best he could come up with was: "Muhammad Ali... strong! Muhammad Ali... Muslim!" Which I was happy to agree with, but just couldn't figure out how to make the next logical leap.
Another, a liberal, told me that Saudi Arabia was unfortunately not a great place for non-Muslims, but that Dubai was amazing, everybody was treated equally there. As far as he was concerned, there was no difference between religions, and the only thing that mattered was whether you were a good person.
Another pulled out a Black Sabbath tape that had been hidden under his seat, put it on, and started head-banging.
Anyhow, on the street, religion wasn't a subject that anyone was particularly discrete about. Interestly, in professional environments (I was there to attend the Jeddah Economic Forum), it was never mentioned at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
EDIT: Not sure why I'm being downvoted here. The linked site is absolutely ridiculous in its lack of information which is a hallmark of concepts that overpromise via marketing and underdeliver by not shipping
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-secular-life/201410...
But I was not here to argue that. If this new "nation" wishes to be forward-thinking and open-mind-inviting, it needs to shake off the religion requirement.
Seems unlikely he'd be able to establish something that has no room for anything traditional, unclear what he really intends to do.
Does a place designed for the rich and privileged, by the rich and privileged equal a rich and privileged utopia?
More like a society run by theocrats, allowing technologists to live and work there, with a handshake promise to be "more socially open minded".
Let's call it Theotechnocracy?
Being arrested for blasphemy is really no different than being "re-educated".
Unfortunately it doesn't advertise democracy, equality, upward mobility, stability, justice, diversity or even freedom.
But in this world, are there enough rich, heteronormal, globe trotters that fetishize clean energy, "clean" food and electric cars to make something like this a success? Probably.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/16/masdars-...
http://www.cnn.com/style/article/egypt-new-capital/index.htm....
That's a bold move Cotton.
Or perhaps MUDW ("Muslim Utopia Doesn't Work")
And you also have all the vexations of "normal" regular life. Women were not allowed to drive at all until recently. Movie theaters simply do not exist in Saudi. Movies that you can legally watch (at home) are heavily censored (so piracy is your only option). And you have segregated areas for males and females in restaurant and most shops...
A project like Neom would totally work if they promised the locals that none of the bullshit rules would apply. Young Saudis would just swamp the place and work their asses off to make it happen... but I doubt the old religious guard would like that. Just marketing BS. They'll just build fancy buildings in the desert at great expense, and nothing will come out of it.
The marketing seems just a little too polished on this one. Reminds me of a kickstarter scam.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Abdullah_University_of_Sc... :
"It was founded in 2009 and provides research and graduate training programs using English as the official language of instruction. It was announced in 2013 that KAUST had one of the fastest growing research and citation records in the world and in the 2016 Nature Index Rising Stars was ranked #19 in the world of the fastest rising universities for high quality research output. KAUST was ranked as the world's top university in citations per faculty ranking indicator as per QS World University Rankings for 2015-2016 and 2016-2017."
Meanwhile, a public university in the US might typically have 40,000 students, and there are tons of them.
You really need a major university presence for this to work. If Saudi Arabia wants to compete economically, they need a good half-million university students.
One startup (read corporation) that rules a whole country.
Finally! /s