Gmail Launches Add-ons
blog.google
blog.google
What's the state of development of it? Doesn't seems to be moving much and a lot of features from gmail are still missing, and I continue to see dev happening on gmail and not on inbox.
Should I be moving back to inbox?
It's trivial to explain the speed difference without assuming it intentional. In Inbox's case, sparse arrays were an issue initially[0] (and like many of the perf issues, it's been fixed[1].)
There will always be perf trade-offs. If you find any where they chose X over Y when X and Y are equal on Chrome, and X is faster than Y on Firefox, then let's talk about anti-competitive behavior.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8495498 [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1087963
On Firefox 57 with that new Quantum CSS, I found Inbox to be amazingly fast (I'd say even faster than Chrome on my yoga pro 2 - except for the right pane of Google Hangouts which takes a while to load still)
Inbox is in a weird place - the features we want in Gmail are in Inbox. The features we want in Inbox are in Gmail. The mails are in the same place. The web clients are separate codebases. I can't imagine all the talented people working at either team are happy with this situation given the way their contributions end up not coming to us users because of this separation. If anyone here is on either team, or has some insight into this, I'd really like to understand what the thinking is behind this stuff. The same sort of goes for Allo, Hangouts, etc. What gives, Google?
Inbox is an attempt to make Gmail easier to use for the average user who has simple needs, so all the "power user" features you want aren't supposed to be in Inbox. If your needs are complicated, you can just use Gmail. Inbox doesn't really introduce any new features that Gmail cannot do, it simply reframes Gmail features in a different UI and workflow. For example, Inbox's "done" action is available in Gmail, but in Gmail it's called "archive". Same with Inbox's "bundles": they're just called "tabs" in Gmail.
As an Inbox user, I'm pretty happy with the state of Inbox. I don't need extra features get my stuff done in Inbox. Porting every Gmail feature to Inbox is missing the point.
I only need signatures in my non-gmail account. This is almost the only reason I switch to gmail now, when I have to send an email to someone outside my institution... it's very frustrating that they implemented signatures but only for gmail accounts.
IMHO if there's one thing missing from Gmail right now is the integration of Reminders from the other products. It doesn't really fit with the gmail workflow though, so I guess it's just another example of the same 'gmail should be more inboxy/inbox should be more gmaily' argument.
https://gsuite-developers.googleblog.com/2017/10/gmail-add-o...
Edit: Looks like you build the add-ons with Google AppsScript. Very similar to Microsoft Office + VBA, on the web this time.
There's a CodeLab tutorial showing how to build a basic add-on that populates a Google Sheets file with receipt data from emails: https://codelabs.developers.google.com/codelabs/gmail-add-on...
Happy to answer any questions about the add-on platform....
EDIT: if you look at the docs of the www.inboxsdk.com/docs there is a lot of functionality above and beyond the sidebar API that add-ons offers.
Also, are there any downsides or missing features of the add-on version compared to the extension version?
In terms of functionality, we're keeping our add-on fairly lightweight. On mobile, the add-on lets you deep link into our native apps for more enhanced functionality. On desktop, if you have our extension installed, it just replaces the add-on entirely so you get the most functionality possible.
I haven't found an email client that reliably renders most html, yet we have addons and soon maybe Android apps in your email.
I'm not sure how widely adopted they are, but Microsoft supports at least event discovery [2].
[0] https://developers.google.com/gmail/markup/
[1] http://schema.org/FlightReservation
[2] https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Automatically-add-t...
edit: formatting
But I don't see that happening with advanced email features. It alls happening outside of the email itself ad is part of the email application.
I know everyone has heard this before, but I would like to see what people think. A couple of days ago, people were all up in arms about phone companies selling your website traffic. What makes Google better than god forbid AT&T or Verizon?
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/google-reading-personal-email...
Searching is not "scanning". Nor is any other normal behavior of providing email services.
So the question at this point is does Google keep your email data silo'd or do they use it for other purposes?
Pray, how does it work, then?
It’s not difficult to put together creepy functionality and twist it so one of the purposes is providing email service.
Second, why do you ask just about Google and not the other companies involved? For example, if you're interested in the Trello integration, you also need to trust Trello with any data you send there. Presumably anyone interested in that particular add-on has already decided to trust both Gmail and Trello with their data, or they wouldn't install it.
Apparently this is what the install screen looks like: https://support.google.com/a/answer/176367?hl=en&ref_topic=1...
I don't think the privacy/security concerns should be so cavalierly dismissed. I'm sure I'm not the first to open a friend or relative's computer and discover half a dozen browser toolbars installed. The same is likely to occur here. HN readership may be pretty cautious about this stuff, but HN readership isn't Gmail's only user base.
Years of Britney Spears Naked Screensavers and malware "removers" have taught us that users are idiots. You can net a bazillion users with one "unlimited space" add-on.
Obviously, there's some vetting but that doesn't always work.
These add-ons could run on Google's servers and only have connectivity to your inbox and session. Instead, this appears to allow companies to do what they like, sharting your data over multiple jurisdictions if they want. Doesn't fill me with confidence.
Please, for the last time, stop using this rhetoric. How would you like to be called an idiot? As a developer and a user, I'm deeply offended by this condescending attitude.
I really don't know what people like -- apparently opt-out is bad, so now we're using opt-in. Still, "opt-in" is bad because it's becoming a toilet? How do you expect _any_ platform to work? Self-host everything?
As for the rhetoric, I'm sorry you feel picked upon. I was speaking generally, not directly at you... but if that still doesn't reflect your experience of the idiots bumping their way around your product, lucky you. Seriously. Even in B2B apps with supposed experts, we get some alarmingly silly feedback.
Everyone is ignorant about something. Take brilliant IT professionals. For many of them, manners and social skills are one of their weak areas.
Sorry if that is a sore point for you. But, making a point in the particular case is not the same as tarring all IT people. I do plenty to give push back against such stereotypes. * I generally prefer the company of IT people. I long have. It is part of why I spend so much time on HN. But I don't feel I need to follow some sort of extremist zero tolerance policy here.
* For example: http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2017/08/communicatin...
"Users are idiots!"
Seems like an inappropriate contribution
That's kind of how the Internet was supposed to work. As it is, we've inverted it, and with that we've also inverted the ownership of data.
If you really want to go down this path -- a broken clock is correct twice, as two discrete points in a continuous time space. The act of looking at the clock is analogous to sampling one discrete point in the time space. The possibility of sampling those two points at any given time is zero.
So no, a broken clock is not correct twice a day. Also, please stop proving anything with analogy.
A person can be clever but people still do stupid things. I do not by any means truly think my users are mentally abnormal, really just that everybody —even those with specific, specialised counter-phishing training— succumb to really stupid things when we're manipulated in the right way.
As somebody developing systems, we really have to build defensively when users' wanton disregard for (eg) data security (manhandling customer databases, giving out their access to colleagues, clients, etc) conflicts with their employers, our and our regulators' data protection rules. So again, be offended if you like, but we're protecting our livelihoods.
In the context of this, Google could protect users against themselves and make the marketplace trustworthy.
They seem to be part of "GSuite Marketplace," which is what businesses use, so presumably the domain admin would also have control over which apps can be installed.
electron apps on the other hands, are creating their own instance.
They'd better not kill GMail without adding an Inbox option to not show attached image previews inline in the inbox. I had to stop using Inbox because not only are these annoying, but there's no way for me to control whether my contacts (or even complete strangers for that matter) send me emails with NSFW images attached.
I like Inbox, though there are some other features I'd like to see before I permanently make the switch from GMail, but the above is a deal breaker. <me>@gmail.com has been my primary email for over a decade, but I'd have to switch to something else.
The question is not if you will move off of Gmail, but when, and would it not be better to be prepared and start the process when you're not under duress from a planned sunset?
I still have to use gmail for some things like deleting lots of messages. And lately inbox has managed to freeze my entire computer for up to 30s.
Is there a company for which that phrase isn't true?
Aside from the logically redundant phrasing, this seems to me a fair description of how selective pressures lead to evolution in populations.
Yo yes, good point, Google does make efforts to ensure that their population of products thrives, evolves, and adapts.
I expect Google does have some future left in which it will create more products so I wouldn’t say it killed almost all its product except those that still exist.
It's still present and working on my personal Gmail as well as my work Gsuite account. I use a bunch of the features.
So now, when the friend says, "Hey, meet me at $PLACE tonight at $TIME and we'll do $ACTIVITY," you say, "Yeah, right," and don't bother to go, because there's a good chance he won't show up, or he'll leave after 5 minutes, and you'll have to pay his tab.
Google went from 'I need a good reason why we are not picking Google' to 'Avoid if at all able'.
For a company built on selling, Alphabet has become extraordinarily good at not selling itself.
If you are using G Suite, you might need to ask your administrator to enable Labs.
If there's one product that would incite the most furor if killed off, it's definitely Gmail.
It's the best email provider around and email is what ties together most peoples' online lives.
It's also at the core of Gsuite for businesses, which I imagine makes it net profitable.
It's awesome.
I wonder though how reasonable my assumption is. E.g. how many security issues in the past two years could have potentially caused my key to be compromised if I were to use it that way.
If not, they should probably consolidate the two.
Google: "Sorry we're busy impl'ing features no one's asked for."
http://blog.google.com/ Doesn't open too
But https://gsuite-developers.googleblog.com opens and google.com opens.
I have tested on my smartphone and didn't work. I am from Brasil, so, I do not think is some kind of restriction.
Anyone have any idea what's going on?
None of those 3 sites open here. What kind of information do you need from ipleak.net?
DNS Address - 1 server 45.62.204.178 Canada Canada
It does seem like you're having DNS problems. See the following:
$ dig @45.62.204.178 blog.google
; <<>> DiG 9.9.5-3ubuntu0.16-Ubuntu <<>> @45.62.204.178 blog.google
; (1 server found)
;; global options: +cmd
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
Even stranger, against your configured DNS server, requests for non-existent .google domains do work correctly, as does nic.google and sites on many of the rest of our TLDs (e.g. get.how and iam.soy). nic.dev and bar.foo do work for me but pki.goog and nomulus.foo do not.
It looks to me like you're having DNS problems. Can you switch your DNS settings? Or use a VPN that does that built-in?
Also, why, if you're in Brasil, are you hitting a DNS server located in Canada?
But I really can not understand why blog.google did not work right away, and why it was routed to a canada DNS.
I am using Google Chrome and Firefox.
Tks for take the time to help. The internet provider that I am using is called netcombo.com.br and in the past, they have blocked the use of others DNS and some services. I do not know if that is the case now.
I have asked for others using the same internet provider to test and will update when they done.
Edit. So, others using the same provider reporter that https://www.blog.google do not open there.
We couldn't find anything for your search.
:-/
So rather than your calendar sending you an email reminder, it inserts a calendar "app" item that's opened when you click the subject of the non-email.
Or a todo list that lives in your inbox, but directly opens a todo document rather links to a todo document. Would replace the never-sent draft I currently use for the same.
On the other hand, I really hate their blog design. The reading space is less than half the screen. https://cl.ly/0h2z471o0v2W
The web UI has gone to crap lately, it being overly bloated, not refreshing inbox anymore after a while, getting rid of plain text (though this was a long time ago). The message composition editor is a mess!
I tried gmail with mutt, I tried gmail with mu4e. They didn't quite replicate the good bits what I wanted. To overcome the psychological barrier I changed email vendors and jumped to mu4e workflow with a fresh start. This is readily a better experience and since I didn't have to worry about fully replicating the Gmail experience I was able to "settle for less".
On the other, it makes me sad that for my business mail, I am stuck with Apple Mail. I miss therefore many important Gmail features, including security-related features. And Apple Mail has still no reliable support for Gmail drafts …
I've been using InboxSDK for a SaaS project add-on and I would love to go to an official API and have it work on GSuite mobile apps.
We're planning on writing a post for how InboxSDK + Add-ons plays nicely together.
Coming later today but in the meantime, tl;dr is we suggest having both if you're doing anything more than a sidebar. We (Streak) are doing both - to get more powerful API's on desktop but still having functionality on mobile.
I dont check email anymore. At least not regularly and dont want to open it. Gmail's Spam detection is also no longer as good as it used to be.
Gmail won the battle with unlimited space for inbox and much better Spam Detection. The first decade of Internet was Hotmail and Yahoo Mail, then we moved to Gmail. I wonder if there will be another email services movement.
I don't know what's needed but the paradigm needs to shift, or something, it just seems like yet another incremental plug-in that will inevitably die or be underused.
OK, well now maybe. If you become a "business partner" with them and shove your product into whatever grand strategery they're cooking up this quarter.
It's sad to think how Android was envisioned as this open system where apps freely communicate with each other but Google has been working overtime to kill that vision. Google in general just hates open these days.
Something so trivial missing from Google's main email client.
I don't want any of these features and wouldn't want others to use things like HTML signatures.
Do not know for android but next sentence is true
You can have an HTML signature on Gmail for IOS.
Basically you setup html signature on web desktop client, then send email through mobile app without signature and gmail does the rest (fetch your hmtl signature)
Iirc desktop outlook could create events/reminders/tasks linked to emails in your inbox.
https://gsuite-developers.googleblog.com/2013/05/introducing...
To do this the calendar would need to access the emails - which would need either IMAP built in to the calendar app [EDIT: or to change the android permission model].
Edited - finished sentence
[1] https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/providers/content...
What do I mean by this? Anyone with a 'private' API, anyone who's business model involves DRM and anyone who thinks that a remote wipe of an unwilling device should be possible.
On the other hand, your example is wrong on macOS where apple mail and safari are sandboxed. So desktop operating systems are trying to catch up security wise and go beyond the traditional Unix security model.
Here is my Gmail on Android workflow: I swipe to right and archive the thread after I read the thread. It goes away from my inbox. Once someone adds a new mail to the chain thread re appears in my mailbox. I read it and archive it again. I rarely delete a mail.
I find that using Gmail with mailing more than X people is impossible because the replies all get mushed together. I now change the subject line for individual replies so I don't get lost.
You just need to change the default from archive to delete on the settings panel.
Does anybody else have problems with mails not being delivered to their phones until hours or days after they've arrived in the inbox?
I haven't had this issue since my OG HTC EVO, but toggling Sync on an account basis in the app could help.
There was also a catastrophic bug in both Gmail and Inbox about a month ago where emails wouldn't notify, might be worth an update if you haven't in a while.
But after 13 years of extensive use of it, I'm currently leaving Gmail for Apple iCloud solution.
No ads. No analysis. Just plain good emails.
FTFY
They almost have it with multiple inboxes, but the layout is really shitty and I have to scroll around my gmail window to see the various inboxes. Why can't they just add this as another tab? It's infuriating that such a simple and useful feature doesn't exist yet. This is why having a monoculture for things like email is a bad idea, they don't really care.