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Comment by smitherfield | Hacker News Reader

They don't as of yet, at least not in any real sense.

[1]: > Around the three-minute mark someone asks how many automakers have taken Tesla up on the offer to use its patents, and Musk notes:

>>> Musk: We actually don't require any formal discussions. So they can just go ahead and use them.

>>> Reporter: Is there a licensing process?

>>> Musk: No. You just use them. Which I think is better because then we don't need to get into any kind of discussions or whatever. So we don't know. I think you'll see it in the cars that come out, should they choose to use them.

Sounds nice, but no legal department on Earth is ever going to approve of deliberately using another company's patents without an explicit licensing agreement, no matter what non-legally-binding statements that company's CEO has made. As a sophisticated businessman, Musk is well aware of this fact.

[1] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150217/06182930052/elon-...

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No legal department on Earth? From what I understand there have been many examples of Chinese companies using clearly stolen IP [1] - pretty sure they would be happy to use these patents.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/opinion/china-us-intellec...

That assumes those companies have legal departments.

I don't think the public promise has a super-secret gotcha button which in some hypothetical future Tesla pushes to sue for patent infringement.

Think what you want about Elon, but he made the pledge openly and directly I think that means something.

What if Larry Ellison acquires Tesla in an aggressive takeover? How much are Elon's words worth then?

even after being acquired, a company doesn't absolve of it's obligations to honour contracts (verbal or written).

If Ellison decides to retract said IP waiver, he would have to publically say so, and because the existing IP waiver Musk have provided doesn't seem to include any terms such as termination, i would assume it's an indefinite and perpetual waiver. Hence, Ellison will have to sue (and probably lose) to have existing usages of said IP to be discontinued.

IANAL.

Tell that to Google, who used the verbal agreement of the Sun CEO that they could use the Java API. Taken over by Oracle and now they are sued over it.

A licensing process is different from having a license. I know plenty of companies use open source software. There is no real process for something using something with an MIT license. You can just use it. As someone who has worked as a programmer, Elon Musk would be familiar with that.

Regardless though, the idea that no company would ever use the patents flies in the face of reality:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/10/14/tesla-m...

The process is verifying that is has an MIT license! Granted, it's a short process. That's easy to do with a software package. What's the equivalent of a COPYING file for this? Have they published a legally-binding document anywhere? Or would a lawyer say that Musk's public statements were enough?

I am not a lawyer, but something like this might apply: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel#Promissory_estoppel

I'm very hesitant to play lawyer but the first sentence from the second paragraph of that section is, "A promise made without consideration is generally not enforceable."

The joke for companies looking to expand into China is that there will only be one copy of the software or device sold.

Ha Ha, Right? Chinese don't feel the same way about IP as Westerners.

I assure you, as a Westerner, I don't feel the same way about IP in the same insane way that the United Sates Congress does, and tries to impose on the world.

Your link seems to indicate otherwise? Notably, that it will enable Apple and others. They also seem to think it is a legally binding statement, if a little vague.

That was my takeaway, actually.

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