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Comment by sotojuan | Hacker News Reader

> When I was young and single I had no reason to really go home after work, so I’d linger at work to finish things and I would work on work things at home in my spare time.

I am 23 (started working in programming at 22) and this view confuses me. I don't want to sound rude but... you didn't have hobbies? Friends? Partner? Errands to run? Non-work programming projects? Even when I was single and lived alone, I had plenty of reasons to leave after 8 hours.

Again, everyone lives life differently but I can't imagine having no reason to leave work, at any age.

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"I am 23 (started working in programming at 22) and this view confuses me. I don't want to sound rude but... you didn't have hobbies? Friends? Partner? Errands to run? Non-work programming projects? Even when I was single and lived alone, I had plenty of reasons to leave after 8 hours."

When I was 23 I had a very active fun social life as you appear to have as well. BTW I had the same opinions as you at that age as well.

The difference is most of those activities are at your discretion and OPTIONAL and you have enormous amount of 'myself' time available . When you have kids and a family your OPTIONAL activities diminish and your 'myself' time is non existent, due to REQUIRED commitments.

In addition staying up to 3am or 4am or all night sometimes was common for me at that age.

After having a kid and family you can still do that. The issue is your kid doesn't give a F that you stayed up till 3am to fix something and you have to take care off all your REQUIRED responsibilities throughout the day. After a while it takes it toll on you.

Good point in differentiating between optional and required activities. I definitely think it is more important for a father or mother to work reasonable hours than someone like me. I just don't like the attitude some companies have that because I am 23 I have nothing to do so of course I'll work longer than I need to.

Agreed and I didn't mean to suggest your time is any less valuable , its at that age you have more freedom to decide what is a priority when it comes to optional time allocation and flexibility to shuffle the time.

BTW companies especially the big ones will push you as far as your demographics or industry will allow them too. Their priority is too push the "what is acceptable line" furthest as possible to save that dollar. The smart ones know better of the consequences, but most are too focused on the quick savings.

BTW when I stayed late or worked for free it was never for the benefit of the company. It was always for my benefit as I was never under the illusion that any company considered me more important than their bottom line. I viewed giving away my free time as an investment on my part to get experience in something that benefited me in the end.

Not the OP, but I had a similar view when I was younger. It was a mix of (a) no errands because all of this was exported to other services, (b) no partner, most friends were also busy so I only was hanging out with friends 1-2 evenings a week, and (c) I've never had non-work programming projects (then or now). Most of my hobbies were solitary activities I could do at home, and since they were flexible, it was easy to shift things around when I was bored enough to spend extra time on work related things.

Hobbies and side projects are flexible to a degree. I cannot pick my child up after 5 from school.

Some people might enjoy the work they do so much that it feels better to keep doing that in their spare time rather then having a hobby, time with friends, partner, errands (specially those), etc.

It's not healthy in the long term but I can see why someone would choose that path and it doesn't have to mean this person "doesn't have a life".

You'd be surprised how much a family sucks time from your life. Before baby, I had plenty of time to overtime work as well as pursue my hobbies. Now that is all gone....

My point was that, at 23, I also have no time for overtime work. Not because I have kids to pick up or take care of sure, but that does not make it OK for companies to expect long hours outside of emergencies.

Ah, I've never been in that situation before. Many of us often overtime because we want to get something accomplished, not just for or even primarily for the company's good. That we get paid to do what we love is kind of a bonus, but it isn't the main motivator(well, we need jobs that are interesting enough, and we need money to provide for the family).

When you have a young family, those things are both much more numerous and much more important.

Right now I am more resentful of the forty hours a week I spend at work than I was of the seventy I spent at work during the period I was practicing over twenty hours a week for a national dance championship.

You should save this comment somewhere and get back to it in ~10 years if you happen to be married and have a kid :) I'm not being snarky or anything, I used to think the same.

You'll soon realize that side projects, friends and hobbies are nothing to be compared with having a spouse, responsibilities and taking care of a young child or an elderly.

The grandparent post, when young and single, did not seem to have anything else to do than work. I am well aware that people with kids are busier than me. My point was that being young and single does not make it fair to your employer or anyone to expect ridiculous hours. I was just surprised that someone would willingly do it and have little else going on in their lives.

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