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Comment by abalone | Hacker News Reader

> The Waymo lawsuit only happened when it did and only effective as it was because of the chaos Susan Fowler initiated.

This seems a bit much. Why on earth would Google wait to sue? Their case was not at all dependent on internal turmoil at Uber.

Fowler deserves a lot of credit but there was significant chaos pre-blog-post (#deleteuber) and after (Greyball). Uber was having a new crisis every other week it seemed, all stemming from a cavalier, bro-y culture. That all added up, Fowler's post included, to a leadership change.

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I think there's a misunderstanding of TKs character. At least internally, whenever there was a critcism externally against Uber whether it be deleteuber or greyball our engineering team only grew more determined. The more backlash from the media it made us closer together and stronger. TK was the most inspirational after external media attack and even after Waymos lawsuit he displayed vigor and confidence that we are the righteous ones and that alphabet is going to lose this battle against us. There's a misconception that these attacks weakened our culture or confidence in our leadership. It's the opposite it was a signal that we were moving fast and changing the world, and TK was at the helm defending us.

This narrative and solidarity broke down soley due to Susan Folwer. I really want to emphasize this point. Her blog post is the only piece of controversy that really made ourselves question whether we were doing the right thing. The only time we saw our great leader unable to justify our hypergrowth and the only time I personally saw him break out in tears, was the all hands discussing Susan Fowler's blog post.

So again please don't discredit Susan Folwer's blog post.

> So again please don't discredit Susan Folwer's blog post.

I didn't. I said you're over-attributing the Waymo lawsuit to it. You didn't respond to that.

As for whether Fowler was the sole factor in "TK's" ouster and none of the other crises had a material impact, well, that's a strong claim. Benchmark's letter alludes to cavalier business practices as well: "[Operating without a CFO for over two years] cannot be justified, given the scale and complexity of the business, and is symptomatic of the broader problems with past management practices."[1] There were more problems at Uber than just morale.

[1] http://fortune.com/2017/08/14/benchmark-employee-letter-uber...

Wow you sound like a disciple of Kalapick's and or someone who is waiting to get rich off working at UBer via stock options or something else!

I hate Uber so much and I'm so glad to see Lyft jumping up the app store charts. Uber let 1k get stolen from me and 1000s of others and their response was basically laughing at us; customers who trusted them with their bank accounts. Their blind arrogance is disgusting and Im so glad to see it's biting them in the butt!

This crosses into personal attack, which is not allowed here. I'm sorry you had that negative experience, but please don't direct it at fellow community members.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I think that Susan Fowler is the single most influential individual in Uber's history, even more so than Travis Kalanick.

1. #deleteuber was a flash in the pan. It fizzled because it was based on a falsehood, that Uber had broken an airport strike by cancelling surge. Uber cancels surge for all notable events. Lyft somehow avoided judgement, despite also failing to honor the strike. The impetus behind the campaign was a combination of that strike action and Kalanick's presence on President Trump's ill-fated executive council.

2. Greyball is a multi-million dollar suit, it will likely be settled for less. Because Uber was only foolish enough to abuse it in a couple of cities (according to news stories and law suits, who knows what legal discovery will unearth!), the scope is limited. Furthermore, the cities that ban Uber also ban Lyft.

3. Lyft's meteoric growth in 2017 can be primarily linked to the sexual harassment stories about Uber. They even based their entire advertising campaign on it, "how you get there matters," emphasizing the moral superiority of using Lyft over Uber. The ad campaign is incredibly poignant and effective. Lyft has deftly turned the fiasco to its advantage.

Susan was able to accomplish what no person had successfully done by publishing an account on her blog of what happened. Because she had not sued the company for damages, she was not held to silence from a legal settlement. Any opponent claiming she was an opportunist had no evidence, because she didn't file suit nor was seeking damages.

Because of her, an entire chain of events was set off. The intense public pressure, that slammed customer growth, hampered recruitment, and impacted Uber investors' social lives (yes, that was a major factor!) was primarily from Fowler's revelation of the company's indifference to sexual harassment.

None of it happens without Kalanick, no Uber, no work machismo work culture, no blog post.

Without the joker, Bruce Wayne is just another wealthy socialite.

> #deleteuber was a flash in the pan. It fizzled because it was based on a falsehood, that Uber had broken an airport strike by cancelling surge. Uber cancels surge for all notable events.

Not to get too caught up on this, but #deleteuber was in response to them being perceived as breaking the strike by operating at the airport at all. So the fact that they cancel surge for all events wasn't accepted as an excuse. Canceling surge just provided more fodder.

Partially but again, Lyft did the same as Uber.

I believe that it’s likely that neither company was aware of the strike until it had already begun.

Fowler's post was huge. Can we at least agree...

1. The Waymo lawsuit did not only happen because of Fowler's post.

2. There were multiple morality-related crises that contributed to Kalanick's ouster. (Lyft's ad campaign could be referring to the whole stew.)

Point 3 seems to be a case where correlation does not imply causation. Basing an advertising campaign with an oblique reference to the issues at Uber* doesn't mean the campaign is effective.

* most people I talk with are only vaguely aware there are issues at Uber, including many drivers, Uber users, and non-Uber users.

  2. Greyball is a multi-million dollar suit, it will likely be settled for less. Because Uber was only foolish enough to abuse it in a couple of cities

For starters: It cost them their license in London. Transport for London didn't look kindly at those shenaginas and apparently didn't believe Uber that they didn't employ those dirty tricks in London.

What's the source for Uber only abusing it in a couple cities? Uber?

The problem with that is that Uber is one of the utterly least trustworthy companies in existence. I, for one, assume that the lie by default, whenever they make a statement.

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