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Comment by CalChris | Hacker News Reader

National Security Clearance is hyperbole. Security clearance is more accurate.

A security clearance is somewhat difficult to get and not especially hard to keep (Snowden). However, having a clearance then opens you up to an entire industry. During tough times (2008) that means jobs will be available:

https://www.clearancejobs.com/

The background checks are thorough. We've had many in the family (definitely not me), my dad, two of my brothers, two uncles, my ex-girlfriend, brother in law, .... And then we get listed as personal references which is a real pain. A drug conviction will not blackball you but then you have to be completely honest as they will find out and that will blackball you. Debt is a biggie.

https://www.state.gov/m/ds/clearances/c10978.htm

As for the article, I think the inferences people are making are reasonable. Also, given Facebook's scope that they need people with clearances seems reasonable.

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Depending on the level of clearance, the difficulty is mostly in the cost. TS can be $50K+ in direct costs and take a year+ where you have to pay that salary (so maybe $125k that a sponsor/company has to front before work begins). In Right to Work states, this is really crazy, as that clearance goes with the person not the employer, and they can leave for better pay the second they get it.

Also, if you get one, you'll work with a lot of Mormons. They are squeaky clean, have great language skills, and know their way around 3-rd world countries.

Also the OPM hack ... what a boondoggle.

What if I am a Libertarian with a massive Anti-Government Bias that believes "States Secrets" is code word for "Constitutional Abuse Coverup"

Will that blackball me? I have often thought about applying for a Security Clearance just to see how fast I am rejected

What do you need a clearance for? Ideally, you are trying to get higher systems level information about security threats, balance points, environmental factors, groups that have been identified... If you have no use for the higher level information in your field then why even go for one? It's a stressful thing to keep, it's a really heavy responsibility, the consequences of betraying the clearance are devastating, and the whole point is that precious information is compartmentalized.

>>What do you need a clearance for?

I dont, it was a question on if my Anti-Government Libertarian Principles would disqualify me from getting one.

> It's a stressful thing to keep, it's a really heavy responsibility,

I am sure it is, I know I would not be able to cover up for constitutional abuses my ethics would not allow for this.

My understanding is that there are a lot of cranks who argue with interviewers and then get declined for a clearance, which is pretty much what you'd expect.

Being a libertarian will not disqualify you. There are specific questions about advocating for the violent overthrow of the US government, though. If you have done that, or have been associated with or are known to be sympathetic to people that have done that, that's grounds for disqualification for sure. But the acts that you or they did or were planning to do have to be illegal; just expressing a general political view is not disqualifying, at least for civilian jobs.

That said: getting a clearance is hugely expensive. It's not a thing you apply for. You apply for a job that requires one, and if you don't have one already, your employer gets you cleared on your behalf (if they're willing to foot the bill; if not, they only be looking to hire people who are already cleared). It's not something you can really do for fun, and in general you'd have to have accepted the kind of job that I would imagine someone with your views might not actually want.

You don't want to apply - all you will accomplish is drawing attention to yourself from an organization that you seemingly want nothing to do with. If you're not on "a list" now - you will be afterwards.

Maybe that's what they want you to think to stop you applying and getting clearance.

Being a libertarian won't disqualify you. Believing you have a right to unilaterally leak information, however, will.

Nah, only communists are auto-DQ'ed. Libertarianism would have no affect.

You mean, what if you’re a libertarian who hates the government so bad they want a job working for it all day? Probably more common than you think

National Security Clearance is like saying Congressional Medal of Honor: both italicized words are superfluous.

Out of curiosity, is past drug use considered an automatic disqualification? I've never been convicted of literally anything, my record is 100% clean. But let's just say college was a very experimental period of time. I'm interested in getting a security clearance but that's the only major red flag I see that could count against me.

No, it isn't. Empirically, based on my family's experience, no, it really isn't.

No, it is not an automatically disqualifying factor. However if you do not disclose in full, or they find something that doesn't match what you've disclosed, _that_ will disqualify you.

Exactly. You must be 100% honest and forthright with your experimenting, and then it will be no problem. I was cautioned once "you'd better report it in the beginning, because they/we will find out" but it did not seem like a disqualifying factor at all, just something to know about. Maybe someone who went that direction in life and does recruiting or screening can helpfully chime in with a throwaway account.

They care about leverage. Does it matter to you that nobody knows you did/do drugs? Then you are at risk of someone using that as leverage against you.

Yup. Increased potential for addictions like gambling, spending, sex, ideology, drugs or gossip makes someone a liability. A health-nut, teetotaler, nerdy dude (or dudette) uninterested in sex, doesn’t talk much and able to resist and report manipulation or pressure would be ideal. (“Boring is beautiful.”)

They look for patterns of behavior. Specifically how recent your negative behavior patterns are. Drug user 5 years ago but have been clean (without any indication otherwise) so long as there are no other negatives (debt beyond your means, domestic violence, etc) you’ll be fine. The more negative behaviors you’ve maintained, the more in the past it has to be.

It depends.

Selling is an automatic disqualifier (as you showed you are willing to commit a crime for money).

Past usage is not an automatic disqualifier, and shouldn't be a problem if it was years ago. Lying is an automatic disqualifier, if you get caught (and perjury if they decide to pursue).

However, it is of my opinion that you should only selectively share information, and only the information that they are likely to learn in background checks.

I had a security clearance about a decade ago, and know many others who received them and other who were denied. The ones who were completely honest were denied. However, this was also immediately after college, so there wasn't ten years of clean living in between. (This circle of friends also experimented with pretty much every substance available during college.)

Overview of the current rules.[1]

Getting cleared to CONFIDENTIAL is easy. SECRET involves a background check and filling out the SF-86 form [2].

In some ways, the higher clearances (TOP SECRET, SENSITIVE COMPARTMENTED INFORMATION) are easier. It's not a checklist thing at the higher levels. You get to discuss problems. There are long interviews, lie detector tests, checks of original records, and interviews of people in your past. The FBI used to do this work, but I think it's outsourced now. The current processing time for a TS clearance is about a year.

(It's been decades since I was in that world, but I've held clearances.)

[1] http://www.military.com/veteran-jobs/security-clearance-jobs... [2] https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf86-non508.pdf

Any suggestions for looking for jobs that one can use to obtain a TS clearance (with a tech background)? Always looking to stay as marketable as possible for lean times.

You know the place. Also defense contractors and national labs with an interest in small supernovas.

Thanks! I hear Hawaii is not too bad.

Admitting to some drug use is almost an asset. I don't drink. It's been more than 10 years since I even had a glass of wine. But such answers on a background check make you look like a recovering addict, which I am not. During my recent checks my references weren't asked about my reliability, only my "alcohol use". The investigators were obviously trying to see if I had lied about my not drinking. I would have been screwed had one of my references made a mistake, for example if they saw me carrying a glass at a party and erroneously assumed it was mine. Luckily that didn't happen. But had I instead lied and said that I drank a sixpack every weekend the investigators wouldn't have even bothered to check.

It's all about leverage. If your drug use could leave the possibility of someone have leverage they can use against you - yes you will be disqualified. IMO, security clearance investigations are not about finding out naughty things from your past simply to find them, they are just a search of "how vulnerable will this person be to being blackmailed?".

They want the list of people who can pressure you to be non-existant or incredibly small.

Nah... Just disclose it. I've done all the drugs. Well, many. Some of them in large quantities. Just be honest about it. They are going to find out and DQ you if you lie.

There are few things that automatically DQ you, for which you can't get a waiver - I guess, I never needed a waiver. Just admit all your drugs, whoring, improprieties, and deviant thoughts. They've seen worse.

Of course, admitting that means they leave you in a DB for years, keep the DB online, let it get breached, and then give you credit monitoring and a form letter.

One thing that I find amusing is that a lot of people are never drug tested as part of the process. I spent ~5 years working for the DoD with a secret security clearance and never had to take one.

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