Comment by anythingnonidin | Hacker News Reader

Comment by anythingnonidin | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

anythingnonidin

I believe we already have an answer for this - which is that most of the benefits of psilocybin on depression (and most other things) rely on the patient being conscious so that they are able to have a 'mystical-type experience.'

In almost all psilocybin studies, the effect is mediated by the degree to which the participant has a 'mystical-type experience.'

I don't imagine this could be experienced while unconscious, and so assuming that's correct, then it would be substantially less effective if someone was unconscious.

I would expect a small anti-depressant effect of psilocybin alone, possibly related to the serotonin 2A receptor and it's impact on well-being. But, to be very clear - the active experience of a 'mystical trip' is what causes a reduction in depression.

See:

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/026988111773127...

'Determinants of enduring effects were psilocybin-occasioned mystical-type experience'

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/026988111667551...

'The psilocybin-induced mystical experience mediated the therapeutic effect of psilocybin on anxiety and depression.'

On the other hand, apparently electro-convulsive therapy still has an antidepressant effect even when patients are anesthetized for the treatment. So it's not like this is a dumb question to ask categorically.

Absolutely not a dumb question to ask, thanks for noting that. In fact, a really good question to ask, as like some other commenters noted that would actually be nice and convenient if it was the case. I just wanted to make sure the information was available on what we know, as I think research has already found the answer, to anyone who viewed the thread.

> In almost all psilocybin studies, the effect is mediated by the degree to which the participant has a 'mystical-type experience.'

> I don't imagine this could be experienced while unconscious, and so assuming that's correct, then it would be substantially less effective if someone was unconscious.

It's correlation, but to determine causation one would have to undergo simultaneous mystical-inducing-quantity psilocybin and be "naturally" unconscious (because e.g. stuff used for general anesthesia is likely to interfere with other brain processes). I have no idea how such an experiment could actually be carried out.

Overnight hospital stay with an IV drip to administer the psilocybin after the patient falls asleep?

Sounds like a good idea, provided that the patient is a good sleeper and is not sleep deprived - there is research showing sleep deprivation provides some short term relief for depression ... everything is confounding, nothing is intuitive about these things.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com