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Comment by lasfter | Hacker News Reader

In debate styles (BP, Worlds) outside of America, "spreading" fails completely, even though dropped arguments are still considered conceded. The key is that inane arguments can be shot down with POIs (questions asked during the speech) or dismissed in batches. Also, if you speak too fast and the judge can't follow your arguments that's your fault.

When I was in high school, American teams usually did pretty poorly in international competitions because the Lincoln-Douglas style does not transfer well into World's style.

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This is because American high school LDers are competing against each other, seeking out the most competitive circuit/format possible. Your reasoning goes a bit like this:

> the American rugby national team is really bad, probably because American football players (e.g. gridiron football) aren't good either.

From my understanding, including one person I know who represented the US two years ago and now does parli for Yale, high school worlds is not a venue for people (edit: people= American high school students) who do it because they are otherwise competitive.

That said: in college worlds and parli ... worlds, former LDers have done really well (e.g. when that is the competitive venue they go after).

Oh no! Sorry I didn't mean to disparage American debaters. I was saying exactly what you are: that LD doesn't transfer well to Worlds style. My point being that penalising dropped points didn't lead to spreading in other styles, so there has been a form of evolutionary divergence in the metas of different styles.

Also, American rugby is probably not as good because the good football players are, well, playing football ;)

The "that's your fault" comment was from the perspective of the judges. As in, in LD the judges can follow the breakneck speed whereas in worlds they don't bother to.

It's worth noting that even among debate activities with very similar (even identical) styles, things sometimes "don't transfer well".

Knowing and understanding the nuances of the the judging pool and the competition are just as important as anything else, so teams that "transfer" between activities are always at a bit of a structural disadvantage. Especially at the elite level where the differences in raw ability and background knowledge start to become imperceptible.

No worries, I didn't exactly take it that way; I too meant it as you do. I.e the most competitive high school speech competitors don't compete in high school worlds competitions!

The most competitive ones, to start with, wouldn't blindly follow an LD style regardless in front of a judge pool and format which naturally abhors it and favors collaborativeness, wit, etc.

And yup, it is a bit more like this imaginary scenario: past high school, there is no more gridiron football (irrelevant sidenote: this does seem likely to happen given the CTE rates amongst players who don't proceed past high school) and so the next generation's Odell Beckhams will move to England after high school to become Premiership players. Which actually is a fascinating thought experiment too...

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