I Keep Quiet About Being a Cancer Doctor | Hacker News Reader

I Keep Quiet About Being a Cancer Doctor

cancer.nautil.us

78 pointsdnetesn103 comments

I keep quiet about what I do, even though I'm just an ordinary software developer.

I feel like there are much more interested facets to me as a person. Also, I get tired of all the dumb, ill informed comments people make about my field of work. Goes for any industry I guess.

Also, people assume I can fix their computer.

When people assume I fix computers, I explain to hem that I am actually the one who makes the software that breaks everything in the first place ;)

Heh, more interesting facets as a person is a good way of looking at it. I once had a neighbor address me as, “You’re IT, right?” (She had WiFi questions.) Yes, that is my identity.

Nurses and schedulers always apologize because their systems are slow. In that context I volunteer what I do and apologize back. They appreciate the understanding and it’s fine because they don’t have time or inclination to ask questions.

“You’re IT, right?” (She had WiFi questions.) Yes, that is my identity.

(In an alternate universe:)

Rips shirt open, revealing the letters IT emblazoned across the t-shirt underneath. In deep voice, replies:

"Why yes, yes I am. I attend parties for the sole purpose of rescuing hapless party goers from their IT woes. How may I be of service?!"

I want that t-shirt.

Here you go:

https://www.zazzle.com/it_t_shirt-235771206132335085

Thank you :-)

I couldn't read your vignette without seeing a superman logo on the shirt. I'm kicking around ideas like this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/OePJOQocUAnvzwbt1 (click to zoom out, Google?)

That's great. Much better than my concept.

I will have to think on that, see if I can do something with it.

If I happen take that and run with it, are you okay with me turning it into a t-shirt?

Feel free.

Whenever they apologize for the system being slow, or difficult for them to use, I say "Yeah, you know we program them that way on purpose, as retribution for how we were treated in high school."

Fix computer is fine. I frequently get trapped in long conversations with someone who is convinced that solve nearly impossible problem with machine learning is the idea of the century.

Or you meet the odd developer who then wants to talk your ear off about what tech they use in their stack...

Worse, you have a brother-in-law who has built a few computers and now thinks he knows everything there is to know about them.

Or the uncle that told me that he knew more about <technical subject> than I did (and got even basic details wrong), while I was showing him my (working) implementation of the concept.

Regarding assumptions of fixing people's computers - I worked in IT many lifetimes ago - I found if I asked people who wanted me to fix their computer to come sit with me for the entire time I would be fixing it to hang out, 95% of the requests disappeared.

My standard advice now is I only support hardware I recommend, and generally, for newbies, the only thing I'll recommend is a Macbook or an iPad which eliminate any and all calls. You can return to being friends and sharing tips about apps and leaving the rest be.

A lot of us in tech can relate.

Q: What do you do ?

A: I am a Computer Networking Engineer

Q: Sounds great. So you build websites ?

A: Umm not exactly but I am aware of how websites work.

Q: So you can build a website ? Like one of those Godaddy ads ?

A: I can surely help you find someone to build that for you. I am just an IT guy.

Q: Oh you mean IT guy who fixes computers/printers etc ?

A: Kinda. The weather is really great today, isn't it (subject changed)

Q: network engineer?

A: that series of tubes you use, I make sure they don't suck.

Q: What do you do?

A: Computer shit. These fires have been crazy huh?

That's nothing:

Q: What do you do?

A: I'm a doctor.

Q: I have this hemorrhoid, could you have a quick look at it?

A: I love this wedding-cake.

Yeah, I'll reluctantly reveal I'm a 'programmer' sometimes, but most the times I'll avoid the question. It's especially true in certain cities, where the first thing people ask you is "Where do you work/What do you do?". DC and SF are terrible with this, and if the wrong person finds out you can program they'll bother you all night with terrible ideas they want you to implement for them when all you want to do is get drunk.

I had an eye exam where the receptionist / salesperson read that I worked at Company X on my insurance. As we made polite conversation, I relayed that I worked on Project Y (a popular consumer product). A couple of weeks later, she used my patient info to call my private phone at 6:30am to ask for tech support. I was appalled, but politely informed her that this was inappropriate and how to seek support through the designated channels.

I thought about contacting the office to inform her superiors about the privacy violation, but didn’t. I sometimes wish I had. I always wonder if I dropped an opportunity to protect others from similar abuse of patient records.

6:30 am, I don't think I would have been polite.

I'm surprised that they answered. I had a recruiter try calling me before 9 the other day.

As far as anyone but friends and family, whose numbers I have saved, I don't exist outside the hours of 0900-1730.

>DC and SF are terrible with this, and if the wrong person finds out you can program they'll bother you all night with terrible ideas they want you to implement for them when all you want to do is get drunk.

So? Take them for an equal ride. It's a lot of fun.

Or follow it up with "Sounds awesome, lets start! I'll need 40 grand up front and 5k/m every month after that :)" they usually respond to that with some sort of "idk if it would be worth doing that".

My wife's former coworker tried to pitch me on her super-secret idea a few years ago, which was basically an AR/VR system. She and her husband were convinced that billions were being left on the table, and that I could write the necessary software and build the necessary hardware solo in just a couple of months.

I got them to stop asking me about it, but I don't think that either of them ever believed my assertion that I wasn't a technology magician.

Q: What do you do?

A: Software Architect

Q: Oh! Great! Can you please fix my laptop?! ...

This.

Yeah why not. I get paid most of the time when I do this for friends/neighbors/XYZ. Either cash or beer, which is fine.

Not restricted to IT:

Q: What do you do?

A: I'm a physics professor. I'm teaching a thermodynamics class.

Q: That's great! Can you please fix my radiator?

> I am a Computer Networking Engineer

> Sounds great. So you build websites ?

That's funny -- I am a web developer, and when people ask what I do I say "I build websites"... which is invariably followed up with "oh so you're a designer".

(Then I follow up with "no, I'm more involved in the plumbing and wiring", and by then they are usually bored).

Coming out of college I was surprised just how big of a separation there is from web designer / developer, since I was so accustomed to doing both for school projects.

I've been responding to this type of thing with "I make websites do things. Send email, show blog posts, that sort of thing."

yea. I also remember the classic "webmaster" from the 90s and early 2000s.

Made me laugh, I'd forgotten that term. Such gravitas... the Webmaster. Reminds me of IE 2 and Java applets (and trenchcoat wearing tragics that thought they'd found power).

Q: What do you do ?

A: Science

Response: Oh... ok.

You can mostly tell when people are actually engaged in your answer and when they're just making small talk.

This covers the awkward half of the conversation, but not the "I professionally tell people they are soon going to die" part. He doesn't want to think about it and they don't want him to share that...but they keep digging against any evasion, just as you have posted.

I actually do build websites but I don’t really feel the need to have strangers understand my job perfectly. Or at all. “I program computers” or “computer stuff” often works fine.

"oh, you're in IT. can you fix my computer?"

"oh, you're a doctor. can you fix my cancer?"

A friend of mine has both a PhD in computer science, and a M.D. He basically looks like a giant flashing single point universal problem solver for people that run into him.

Wise from old mistakes, now he just lies if the guy next to him on a plane asks what he does.

yeah, wow.

since i own a small business i just tell people i work in finance now. less questions and comments and more quiet, inaccurate assumptions of wealth and power which i am happy to let be.

I have these questions about my taxes....

me too, my tax guy is great at that. here's his number.

I hate being introduced as Dr. KGIII. Almost invariably, I'll get asked medical questions.

I'm a mathematician.

Not a real doctor then? ;-)

That was rough!

I'm really not sure why people assume it is an MD. This happens with great regularity to the point where I've long since discarded the title and ask to not be introduced as Dr. KGIII.

It seems a strange assumption for people to make, and it's often people with college educations that make that assumption.

> I'm really not sure why people assume it is an MD.

Not sure why you're unsure. It's one of the first 'professions' people get introduced to (as kids), and that label is there. "Tell the dr XYZ", "let's go to the dr", etc. It's a "doctor's office".

There's few other professions the general public interacts with with a label in front of it all the time, and it's almost always the medical one we know first, and most often.

Outside of academic settings, the 'dr' title doesn't get used much except by medical professionals.

Similar for "architect" or sometimes "engineer" in our space.

Many of these people have spent time in academia. Surely, they encountered doctors who weren't medical doctors.

I have a PhD, as do most of the people I see at work on a daily basis. But I still assume - even at work! - that someone introduced as Dr. X is a medical doctor.

Someone mentioned that it may be due to our first exposure being a medical doctor and that makes some sense. I really don't know why this is. I've noticed this for years, to the point where it has even made me tired of responding that I'm not a medical doctor.

You and I are probably sharing similar experiences. In both our cases, we probably have had much more exposure to doctors who aren't medical practitioners.

Yet, I don't immediately think of medical doctor.

Caveat, I am not sure if I used to immediately think medical doctor before I noticed the assumptions being made about me. I don't know if I assumed doctor meant medical doctor before I was exposed to the bias.

I may have, but my brain doesn't function like that and I don't remember.

shrugs

It's been a bit of a personal mystery since 1991. Technically, probably sooner.

Edit: Removed sentence that could be interpreted as a pejorative towards my ex and added nothing to the post.

Culturally, "doctor" just means "medical doctor." I think that's because many people need to interact with, and talk about, medical doctors. And they need a name for that kind of person, and our language landed on "doctor." That is, as far as the English language is concerned, "doctor" is more profession than title. Even to the point that "to doctor" something is to fix it in some way.

Personally, the only time I have volunteered the honorific is when talking to my congressional representatives.

I dealt with government and the public fairly often but not so much at the federal level.

One of my favorite examples:

I was on a public access cable show talking about how the project was going to be a temporary problem for traffic congestion and about the benefits of the project.

We took a short break and came back for the final ten minutes which was to be a question and answer phase. The questions were to come from audience members or by phone. The audience was made up entirely of the meager production crew and an employee of mine.

The host invited people to call in and ask Dr. KGIII questions. The very first one was a person with a strong regional accent and I don't remember the exact verbiage but they had a question about their irritable bowel syndrome - or wanted it diagnosed, something like that.

I explained that I wasn't a medical doctor and the person on the phone responded with something like, "Well, you're a doctor, ain't you? You gotta know something!"

I nearly peed myself laughing. I'll leave the region out of the story, I don't really want to reinforce stereotypes.

Being introduced as a mathematician may be better. Granted, I know even that gets weird, strangely concistent across people responses. But that’s people.

There's nothing that can't be solved by some version of the implicit function theorem

I used to drink, a lot. My then wife would take me to fancy parties where we ate things I can't pronounce and I pretended to care about the appropriate cutlery. She'd introduce me as Dr. KGIII and, sure enough, I was asked medical questions.

More than once have I drunkenly handed out bad medical advice.

I wonder if you can get sued for malpractice if you're a math doctor. They'd need proof either way.

I will not be baited into math puns.

At HN, going off on a tangent is frowned upon.

“Hy doc, can you take a look at this series of moles and tell me whether or not they converge?”

"Oh you're in IT, can you fix my computer?"

I'll often go for the soft approach first: "Sorry, I only deal with Linux based systems, I don't know a thing about Windows or Macs"

While yes, I deal solely with Linux professionally, it's a little white lie to claim that I know nothing about Windows or Macs. I use them both.

Those circumstances where it doesn't, I'm quite comfortable telling people "No". Took a while to get comfortable with it, but hey it's a useful thing to get comfortable with.

First words out of my mouth are often "I don't do Windows."

When pressed, I've told people "I can, but I don't want to." Or "I used to do that, but I stopped when it got boring."

Or I'll propose that we swap professional services, and that usually shuts things down.

TLDR:

"The very label I live with causes such Big Feels in anyone who hears me utter those words that it is a huge, exhausting derail to ordinary conversation. So, most of the time, I would rather just not go there. Kaythxbai."

I can relate.

I'd just pick a boring synonym that's not a complete lie. "I'm a doctor, I work in the area of cellular kinetics. Boring stuff, really...what do you do?"

In some strange way reading this almost motivates me to want to become a "cancer doctor", makes my life feel somewhat mundane.

Yeah, makes me want to be useful to people in a way they can understand or relate to.

I can relate. Having been both a medical doctor (former career) and as an tech-related entrepreneur, I hate telling people what I do, why I left my old job, and if I make any money at all in my new job. No joke, I just tell them I'm a stay at home dad. Anything else would reveal too much and draw too much attention.

At a motorcycle club party, one of the people there revealed that he was a motorcycle mechanic. Big mistake.

I like solving puzzles so I'm quite happy to fix computers for free for friends, family and my neighbour who is chronically ill. I also volunteer at our local community computer centre.

I did draw the line at fixing them for free for one of the centre's customers. Both he and his wife are working, they have two cars and own their own home so, after spending two four hour sessions at their home, I directed him to one of the commercial home-visiting operations. He has younger-onset dementia so teaching him to use a computer was challenging. He'd forget half of what I showed him and get the other half wrong.

"So, what do you do?"

"I'm a professional liar. Right now, I am lying about my career".

Educated man discovers the answer to the question, “How’s it going?” is always “fine, you?”

I prefer to reply "living the dream, you?".

"Better than many, not as good as some".

He already knew the answer; in fact, he refers to that in the text.

This is superficially true, but I can completely sympathize with his position. After a lifetime of doing just as you say, my wife asked for divorce. Suddenly this small social lubricant that I never really noticed was just a jab into my pain...and people ask this A LOT. A few times I told people how I was, much as he described, and it didn't go well. It created the impression that I'd just have to deny out loud that I wasn't feeling what I was feeling. That no one cared about me, because the first thing anyone did was ask "how are you" without wanting the actual answer. Often, they ask while walking past and don't even wait for an answer, fake or not.

It felt different, not like the normal experience at all. That was a long time ago for me. As I learned to cope, this stopped being an issue.

Was I being self-centered and unreasonable? Probably. Doesn't change how it felt though. When I behaved as everyone expected, it was still raw, painful, and oh-so-frequent. If this guy deals with regularly telling people and their families that they are going to suffer the ravages of chemo/radiation to have too tiny a chance to live, not to mention the ones that he has to tell that they are going to die soon, that he has to say there is no option, that he has to cope with the immediate shock and denial. If he deals with the terrible question of "how long do I have?", if he deals with people that have families, if he deals with people who have no one - that all sounds horrifying. I wouldn't WANT a doctor (or anyone) to take that casually, but that also means I'm wanting that doctor to never escape those pains.

A friend of mine does therapy for low-income teens and she shuts the work portion of her brain down when not on the job. Doesn't even like to talk abstract concepts or read field-related articles. This mystifies me, because as a coder the difference between work and play is if I choose what to do, not if I'm programming. To have other interests I get, but to actively not want to think about something so large in my life would be at best bizarre. I'm guessing it's a similar issue to this author, and in his case people that pry are forcing him to think about it. And then those prying people try to connect by sharing their stories of cancer. I don't know of good stories about cancer - they are at best avoiding-the-worst stories.

So yeah, I don't see him learning what's expected, I see him telling us some side effects of what's expected. Hopefully I'll now be a bit more aware that someone being vague probably has a reason to be vague, and not follow my natural instinct to pry.

Seriously, the small talk exists precisely so we don’t have to get into shit we’d rather not get into. Not because everyone thinks the weather is actually fascinating.

This is likely an extremely recent modern view of citified, housed people who work in offices. Try camping for six years or getting a job that involves working out in the weather. You will likely find yourself developing a keen and genuine interest in the weather.

I've taken a cue from the French, and usually respond with "it's going".

ITT: A whole lot of people who don't like to talk about what is usually people's favorite subject...themselves.

Now I am off to find a random person to describe my ideal tech stack to before fixing their computer.

You just have to find the right answers, but when I change roles it is a new challenge:

I recently started my own thing in the bay area, and no matter what the topic is people say "congratulations" when they find out I'm doing my own startup or the CEO or Co-founder of the operation. I wasn't expecting that, what are you congratulating me for? I get it, people think I have all this capital and earned the ability to take the risk, or have the validation from the backers, and they wish they did. But that just lacks context right now.

There's a pastor who sometimes answers this question with "I'm a doctor for souls." .... The answer "Pastor" can be a conversation killer.

This is strange - a pastor is a pretty ordinary job and has lots of polite follow-on questions like 'where is your church'. 'Doctor for souls' sounds like you're you're either giving me a nonsense answer for some unknown reason or you're genuinely unhinged. I don't know why it would lead to a better conversation!

There's a lot of people who avoid conversations about religion, especially if they think someone will try to 'convert' them. Edit: "doctor for souls" might invite "what do you mean?"

If I'm avoiding conversations with religious people, you can be certain I'm avoiding them with people who claim to be a doctor of souls though. He sounds like he wants to vivisect me rather than just convert me!

No, you're thinking "soul surgeon".

He is trying to improve his bedside manner. It's an ongoing effort. :)

If there are enough people like me, i can understand why.

I would have to hold back to discuss my views against religion with a pastor.

As a yankee that moved to the south for a while before retreating to Seattle, I can say that my reaction would vary based on the local culture. There are areas where it seems EVERYONE is a pastor and enough of them are preachy and/or judgmental enough that, yeah, it's a conversation killer. The constant barrage can also make you hypersensitive. I didn't much care until after a few years of living there, but by the time I left the constant "have a blessed day!", the bumper stickers, the billboards, the email signatures (even from state govt employees), most any personal local story in person, in writing, or in news...I mentally flinch if something gets near the topic even though I used to not have much reaction at all.

I imagine 'doctor for souls' is intended to show humor and approachability, but as you say, it would not work that way for me.

> The answer "Pastor" can be a conversation killer.

As it maybe should be. I'm certainly not denying that people identifying as pastors can offer solace and comfort to people in times of trouble, but they are doing so in the context of mysticism, in a particular form that has been catastrophic for many groups in our society.

I think telling people you're a family doctor would be worse. Do you really want every every person you meet to try to get free advice on their hemorrhoids?

Instead of asking "What do you do?" I like to ask, "What do you like to geek out about?" or "What could you talk about for hours?"

https://open.buffer.com/27-question-to-ask-instead-of-what-d...

a lot of these questions are awful, but "what do you do for a living" isn't a great question either.

Good ideas.

If it's someone I see semi-regularly, I ask "What's been keeping you busy lately?"

The author talks about what it is like to be a cancer doctor. I don't think I could take it, and have a lot of admiration for, and gratitude to, those who can.

As for being a conversation-stopper, people are generally making light chat, and they don't want to get into something so heavy. Maybe after you get to know someone better.

My favorite: "Oh, what do you do?" "I'm a programmer". No interest. Later, "I forgot, what was your occupation again?" "Software Engineer". "Oh, software engineer? That's amazing."

No, it's the same goddamn thing.

When asked about what I do, I say “software”; to further clarify that I’ve found that comparing it to the roles in the auto industry helps people understand what you do: manager, engineer, designer, repair person, customizer, etc.

I tell people I'm an exotic dancer. It gets a few laughs/breaks the ice, and people don't tend to further probe after that kind of response! :)

I wonder if there's a more polite way to deflect the conversation? Perhaps, "I really don't like to talk about my work?"

Except for this article, he keeps quiet.

Who says "cancer doctor"? I thought they were called oncologists.

He sure doesn't mind blogging about it for the whole internet to read though.

I knew a lawyer once through a mutual friend, who in fact passed away from breast cancer.

Near the end I asked my lawyer friend if she could help us with a will. She immediately said to me that I would be speaking to the lawyer, not the friend. She takes those matters very seriously and is very professional.

Doctors can take that route too. If someone asks about their profession they can simply defer them to their office.

I was ok with this. I'm sure some will object but you can't please everyone.

Just because I hate getting down-voted with no replies, I figured I'd break it down for you.

>Who says "cancer doctor"? I thought they were called oncologists.

Honestly, so what? Besides, he uses the term oncologist frequently in the article, it's not like he doesn't know...

>He sure doesn't mind blogging about it for the whole internet to read though.

He avoids it as a topic of small talk because of how unusually heavy a topic it is. Besides, now he can direct friends and family to the blog post and avoid multiple variations of the same difficult conversation.

>Doctors can take that route too.

And he does, more or less... what on Earth was your point? The whole anecdote was actually off-topic and confusing. Are you trying to insinuate that the author isn't professional and/or emotionally tough enough? It comes off that way.

No I felt the conclusion was obvious but what's obvious to some might not be for others. So my comment was pretty unnecessary.

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