150 days of living and coding in a van
ruby-on-wheels.github.io
ruby-on-wheels.github.io
I also live in a vehicle. I have a 25ft (7.6m) former airport shuttle bus I've converted to my home. It took me over six months of full time work and it's still not complete.
I've lived in it for a bit over four months. Overall it has been good but not without challenges. I'm currently busy working which has led to neglecting stuff I need to finish on the bus. I can't travel far until I finish these things.
Here are some recommendations and tips if you're considering this life:
* If you haven't spent time camping in a vehicle rent one for at least a week and try that first. It's not exactly the same but similar.
* Don't jump in blindly. Do significant research into what others have done, what works and what doesn't, etc.
* If you decide to build something yourself expect it to take at least twice as long and cost 50% more than you plan.
* Evaluate if it makes sense to do the build yourself. I wanted to build something physical instead of just writing code. Financially it would have made more sense for me to continue working full time and have a place like Sportsmobile do the build. I wouldn't have learned the skills and had the experience though.
I have a lot of build photos on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/driverdan/
I'm happy to answer questions.
I've encountered very few negative reactions to it, mostly positive. I've had a few people respond with shock, as if they didn't understand it at all.
People who would be negative about it are not people I want in my life. I expect friends and family to support my decisions, even if it's not something they're interested in themselves.
Some cities have NIMBY laws that ban living in vehicles. This is especially common in the south bay area. You'd have to lookup your local laws.
On the other hand, it's unhealthy to surround yourself with yes-men. I personally think it's pretty cool, but I can't say I support the decision since I don't know if it's good for you in the long run.
I wager you take criticism better than that sentence indicates, though.
Agreed.
> I wager you take criticism better than that sentence indicates, though.
I think constructive criticism is extremely important and solicit it. It's a good way to discover mistakes or better options.
Most of that probably had to do with better work/life balance and all that came with it: a happier life (and the more glowing, confident, adventurous and risk-taking personality that comes with it), far better physical fitness and appearance, and more activities (and places to meet new people).
That said, you will get bad reactions and experience negativity. I agree with OP: they come from people that are not the type of people I want in my life; but those people also exist on this earth and there is no escaping that fact.
In Australia I built a van out of something like a Toyota Hiace for less than $500 + the cost of the van. I travelled in it for a year, living in it for well over 6 months of that, and sold it at the end. I actually didn't really need $500: I made money building the van as I bartered a deal to help out a carpenter with some basic office IT stuff, and ended up learning and helping a little bit around his shop, whiche he gave me cash-in-hand for at the end.
I also used second-hand and bartered items for the interior, and even a little bit of left-over lumber, tiling and cloth, which saved at least $1,000.
I have 2 pieces of advice: the first is that the most important thing is a comfortable bed, real bed. I bought a new, cheap one at Costco. Not fold out cushions, or a pad, or anything like that. A big bed with extra blankets, good sheets, and pillows. Consider that you want to be outdoors right? Ostensibly, you will use the van for driving, carrying a surf board and mountain bike (or your hobby of choice), and sleeping. That's the big 3, and you don't need much to make that possible, other than a van with a nice bed inside.
I did also have bench inside for working, an electric cooler, and kitchen setup, but even all that was superfluous: I prefer to work in coffee shops, libraries, or laying in bed. I ate out or bbq'd. I showered at beaches, gyms, campsites, or at new friend's places (for some reason, most are very eager to help travellers and invite them over).
The second is how much do you care about not looking poor? I have travelled in a ~$5,000 camper and a ~$200,000 camper. I slightly preferred the $5,000 camper. It is pleasant to drive rather than worrisome, doesn't give you motion sickness or pollute as much, easier to maintain and manage, and you can take it into the city, to the supermarket, and places the RV can't go. There is a reason those old Westfalias are so expensive other than them being rare!
However, most people care mostly about not looking poor, or their status, especially in America(1). You will see, and be seen by other people differently living in a $5,000 camper, and that unfortunately presents challenges here.
However, in the end I sold it for even more than that, and it taught me a lot. If you are thinking about doing this, you could always start with something basic, like this! Especially if you are young and want to go surfing, mountain biking, and snowboarding every weekend, I really recommend it.
1- content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1974718,00.html
That resonates. I scaled down my daily driver to a beater Toyota because every time I drove the amount of anxiety around the car getting stolen, broken into, dinged in a parking lot, or any number of other small injuries became unbearable. I ended up not enjoying driving, so what was the point?
After a year, I still enjoy driving this beater more than the one that cost forty five times more to purchase.
I guess it's a lesson about things you own ending up owning you? :)
I've done a few test outings but generally end up reinforcing my conclusion that cellular is not overly reliable when you're more than an hour or so outside a moderate-sized town. I currently have to carry equipment for two separate carriers (AT&T and Verizon) and a signal booster to have a reasonable success rate at getting a strong enough signal to work.
The next avenue I'm exploring is satellite internet, but it is significantly more expensive.
I'm kind of extreme though; I've been using cellular data almost exclusively since 2001 so its nothing new. I've spent plenty of time out of range. I think that if you are out of range and you need to connect; its time to move on.
i used ~150GB/month, with an unlimited verizon plan. i used a dual antenna hotspot, with an extra antenna extender. if i had 3g service somewhere, i could use the hotspot and antenna and usually get lte. i thought i would need satellite, but i didn't. its also slow and expensive. slower than 3g probably.
when done, i sold the RV for the same price i bought it for, saw a lot of the US, saved $12k on rent, spent $2k on gas and $700 on tires, $200/mo on internet... that's about it. i got a LOT for my money
A week ago I was in northern Idaho on Priest Lake. Within my camp site I was unable to get a usable cell signal with the phone alone, but with my booster and a directional antenna I could get up to around -90-100 dBm. This worked until the rain came. That tower and other rural towers seem to frequently use microwave backhaul links to get connectivity, so the rain fade was sufficient to make that connection unusable for a couple days.
I've found the pi doesn't work well because it's having power or IO issues where the external adaptor is slow when rebroadcasting on internal wifi. I'm upgrading to an Intel NUC when I have the time to finish setting it up.
Most people who don't have showers in their vehicles join chain gyms with a lot of locations (Anytime Fitness, Planet Fitness, etc).
I built a Jeep Wrangler into a house on wheels [1], and am driving around Africa for two years.
I am freelancing for Magazines, and earning money through my website and social presence. I have not done any coding on this trip, mostly becuase I find it hard to get remote work that meets my flexibility needs - i.e. weeks off-grid and only occasional checkins/calls.
Last time I drove Alaska to Argentina, doing more-or-less the same thing.
Then again, if we could go off road, I think it would mean that we'd be hanging out with more Germans. Germans love massive 4x4, ex-military campers.
The article talks about the flexibility of his lifestyle: "instead of following a fixed plan, I get inspired by random ideas: When the waves are great, I go surfing. When it’s chill and fresh, I work. When it’s hot, I go for a swim." ... which sounds lovely, but I can't see how that works with a full-time job, to be honest.
There are, of course, freelance jobs you can do where you have a task to do and a deadline and (hopefully) not too much real-time conversation required... but it may be hard to get enough of that work to support yourself.
You need the job & others around to stay in touch with the pace of what is happening and to keep up your friendships. And then having a quiet place to go, surrounded by nature is also vital.
In my team there are two others (there are a handful of teams in our company - all remote), sometimes we need to work together (e.g. to solve a bug) but most of the time we are all just working on our own tickets. If we were in an office we'd be the same - eyes down, headphones on.
You just need to trust people enough, to know that they are going to do, what they say they are going to do. Admittedly that's hard for some people (the trust and being trustworthy), which I'd say is why remote work often gets a bad rep.
The challenge is that I was trying to soften the remote aspect by working from home more often, but then caught significant flack from my managers that "it kills teamwork." The most frustrating thing about it all is that I, as a Data Scientist, work on a lot of "skunkworks" types of projects where I spend almost zero time collaborating with others.
The challenge is finding some of the freelance or fully remote jobs for data science work.
I also made a video recently about "3 Years of Living in a Camper Van and Running a 20 People Remote Business" [1]
Now I'm in it for 3.5 years already and thought I'd settle down eventually, but I still love it as on the first day if not even more.
[1] https://optimizingforhappiness.com/3-years-of-living-in-a-ca...
Previous HN discussion on the article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14138438
I don't plan on doing the whole journey on bike, the main 2 parts I want to do on a bike is Vietnam (tried doing this last year, but had to give up due to the weather), and Mongolia. The rest, we'll see what happens!
Yes, this Jeep build got a little out of hand, and some day I miss my bone-stock two door I took from AK to Argentina!
I'm in the DRC right now, slogging through the mud!
I have no idea, though it looks like the trip will grow beyond the originally planned 2 years.
The price of the vehicle is hard to pin down, I bought a lot of parts by partnering with brands, so I got discounts.
The important part to remember is I drove AK-Argentina in a $6000 Jeep that I sold for $5000 at the end !
You might be able to find it for less, but it is doubtful.
I'm in the DRC now, country number 16. Having the time of my life.
To really determine if you can do something, talk to people that have done similar things. I know at least 50 people that have done what I am doing, and loved every second. They all said without hesitation the only crazy thing would be not doing it!
I hear things like that time and time again, and I can literally not understand it. Why would any sane person leave the water running while brushing their teeth? When I brush my teeth, the water runs for one second to wet the brush, then for another second to draw water into a glass for rising my mouth with, then for another five seconds (on a low setting) to clean the brush. That's maybe 100 ml. I literally drink 15-20 times as much per day.
a) the price of tap water being cheap enough that the difference in consumption between efficient and wasteful behavior not causing a meaningful enough difference in the bottom-line cost of the monthly water bill to affect a change in behavior
b) sanity not being the same thing as morality, with the sane person not considering the waste of fresh water to be a moral or ethical violation.
It is being paid for, and then goes back to the earth.
It is not like it is being contaniminated with mercury.
Of course this is just an example. Maybe there are even better examples like flushing your pee away or ignoring a leaking tap...
At the end I just wanted to make a point. I'm definitely not a perfect roll model for a sustainable life. But the van life made me more aware of how we take things for granted although they are limited.
But then again, I'm a bit of an oddball regarding tooth-brushing. In my view, the alcohol-based mouthwash is there to do a scorched-earth annihilation of all mouth bacteria, and the toothbrush is only there to break through biofilm and clear away all the tiny, tiny corpses. So I brush with a tiny bit of soap and tiny bit of toothpaste, while holding a mouthful of mouthwash. (And sometimes I use peroxide-based mouthwash, to attack the anaerobes under the gums. Cavities from S. mutans aren't the only reasons to brush.) If I routinely rinsed my brush, I would do it in an antibacterial, not with tap water, but when it comes out of my mouth, it is essentially covered in alcohols already, so I don't. As a result, the only use I have for the sink is as something to spit into.
Flossing and brushing (and some tongue scraping) is all that is necessary. Alcohol based mouthwash dehydrates the mouth a bit-- which might precipitate bad breath.
That argument holds for any point on the "target clean level" curve, though... for example I could use it to argue that flossing is cleaning beyond what's optimal. Not that I think it, but what is the best strategy, long term?
Smug statements about how wasteful people not living in these fringe conditions are always remind me of the Soylent founder lecturing about how doing laundry wastes water while also reordering all his clothes from china when they get dirty. [1]
[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/08/op-ed-how-i-gave-up-...
I'm not quite sure the ecological footprint of my life style is smaller than of someone who lives in an apartment in Berlin. However since I live in the van, I pay way more attention to where I and others waste resources. Maybe a first step to make a change?
So no matter how you turn it, solar panels are a lot alot more environmentally friendly than convential energy sources.
That doesn't pass the sniff test. Solar cell production is on a strong upwards curve, if 80% is recycled from other panels then supply would be bounded by old solar stock recovery, which is not the case.
I can't see how 80% of solar panel material, even if we're talking exclusively about the PV cells and not the surrounds, could be from old solar panels, especially not 30 year old solar panels.
That's still great news, but nothing like:
>80% of the material in solar panels is recycled from old solar panels.
Which implies new panels rolling off the production line consisted of 80% recycled material from old panels. That's not possible. If you have 10 old panels coming in to be recycled, and you recover 90% of the materials from them, and you're producing 100 new panels (since production is increasing), at best you're gonna get 9% recycled material into your new panels.
You manufacture things like that near (nearly) free energy sources like rivers.
He reorders his clothes on what we can presume is a similar time scale to normal folks', and he washes them with "less water", "thanks to synthetic fibers."
It's interesting that you've included your source and managed to totally misrepresent it.
"I have not done laundry in years. I get my clothing custom-made in China for prices you would not believe and have new ones regularly shipped to me. Shipping is a problem. I wish container ships had nuclear engines but it’s still much more efficient and convenient than retail. Thanks to synthetic fabrics it takes less water to make my clothes than it would to wash them, and I donate my usedgarments, helping out those in need."
To me that reads like the author just buys a bunch of clothes new, then donates them when dirty because the cost of washing the clothes exceeds replacement value.
He states very clearly that he washes and reuses them.
No, he very clearly does not state that he washes or reuses them. Here is the clothing section, in full:
--- I enjoy doing laundry about as much as doing dishes. I get my clothing custom made in China for prices you would not believe and have new ones regularly shipped to me. Shipping is a problem. I wish container ships had nuclear engines but it’s still much more efficient and convenient than retail. Thanks to synthetic fabrics it takes less water to make my clothes than it would to wash them, and I donate my used garments.
It bothers me immensely that all clothing is hand made. Automation is woefully absent from the textile industry, but I don’t think it always will be. For now a few new t shirts and jeans per month is not very offensive. I certainly buy less clothing overall than a typical consumer. Synthetic fabrics are easy to recycle and I believe will soon be made with biofuels. Still, this area needs some work. ---
The only reference to washing them is the water savings of buying new over what it would take to wash them; now, he also says that he buys "a few new jeans and t-shirts each month" and "less clothing than the typical consumer". Now, those descriptions appear to conflict, and either one of them seems to suggest enough reuse that many people would assume he must be washing them a few times -- going with the first (which is the one least indicative of reusing clothes a lot), and assuming "a few" is not more than 5 of each, he'd have to be wearing each at least ~6 times, which seems a lot without washing. But he doesn't say he is washing, that's just an implication that is easy, though not necessarily correct, to read into his statement.
I thought all clothing construction was automated in factories, like any assembly line automation.
Because turning it on and off all the time is inconvenient.
Operating the faucet with a foot pedal fixes this. People are too lazy to push it down if they don't need water right now.
With a pedal, you can also turn the water off in the middle of washing your hands. It's like a small-scale navy shower.
I like to have logs, command line, and editor all visible, and ideally a browser too. The editor alone is much more useful in a big window where you can see a file tree and multiple files.
I seem to recall DHH (Basecamp/Rails) said in the past he frequently developed on an 11" MacBook at some point, only using a monitor when sat at a desk, so I guess it's doable.
Yes, the ergonomics suck relatively speaking, especially now that my eyesight is getting worse with age (and from falling off a Segway!), but it means that I can work anywhere and my desk at home can be tiny.
Yes, laptop ergonomics aren't ideal, but neither is life. There are always trade-offs. And I have some colourful language memories from earlier sysadmin jobs getting horrific shocks while lugging other users' colour CTRs around for them...
I'd suggest that anyone who thinks that they "need" a huge monitor as opposed to "prefers" should considers needs vs wants.
If I was living in a van, and I'm a tiny house fan BTW, a large monitor would NOT be on MY 'needs' list.
Another commenter made a good point about more screen space being more distraction, and debuggers being a big part of that as an example of not solving the real problem. Given that you only have a few cm^2 of full-definition vision anyway, you have to manage that one way or another. More pixels is not necessary that way.
Having (a) tried it various ways, and (b) having complete freedom as to how to organise my work life, I believe that keeping it small and simple and focussed works well on balance, at least for me. And it may work for others.
You do know that humans (other than yourself, maybe!) are not perfectly rational creatures? B^> Oscar Wilde's quote "I can resist anything except for temptation" is an astute observation.
Depending on the task, of course - there are times when all I need is one 80x25 terminal, and then there are times when having several as large as possible windows open side by side helps a lot, e.g. when analyzing logs from several cluster nodes.
I love the Wilde quote, by the way, I don't think I've seen this one before. :)
No. Some of us work even more focused on a single smaller screen even than having 10 BS windows asking for our attention (and I include debuggers in those, the ultimate hop-around time sink for some developers).
Besides, people managed to write software for several decades before larger than 14" screens became the norm. Heck, until the late seventies many people didn't even use a visual editor -- they only edited their files line by line in ed. And until the 90s even color was not that common -- there goes syntax highlighting (and many other uses of color).
So I don't think big monitors are any sort of necessity in the days of 15" laptops with excellent retina screens.
As I wrote "some of us" prefer smaller/single screens for focus. If it doesn't work for you, or if you can manage NOT to get distracted by 5 open windows in 2 x 24" monitors, then more power to you.
Personally, I definitely find myself going through stretches where I just use printf debugging. (I work on a lot of hobby language implementations where that's often the only kind of debugging there is.) Then I remember, "Oh, yeah, debuggers are a thing." More often than not, I'm surprised by how much faster I am at tracking down an issue using one.
And not because of primitivism reasons ("who needs fancy IDEs" etc), but because of a quite concrete reason: increased focus.
In the era of 1000 distractions for programmers, it's perhaps more valid than it would have been in 1984. Then, if you had dual monitors, they'd still show just your code, some log, some documentation, etc. At best, xeyes.
But I too prefer to work on a smaller screen (and I have tried much larger monitors). I switch context and then just work in that context. I don't feel the need to be able to see a load of different things at the same time.
Really though, it's subjective and everyone should just do what works best for them. It's the same discussion that comes up with some people having 200 tabs open in their browser whereas others of us keep it really minimal.
I'm over a decade into working pretty much on a 13" macbook full time and that's my happy place.
Not exactly antagonistic -- meant to give some historical context to answer the parent's question which made it seem like big monitors are some physical necessity that people just can't do without. It's not like big monitors where any kind of norm before at least 2000.
I know tons of people happily coding away on a laptop with no external monitors attached.
It's a very strange thread to read. Judging by the downvotes, it seems as though there's a really negative reaction to people who code on small screens. Whatever people want to do is fine, but it's pretty weird to almost shout down anyone who does it a different way.
A, yes, thanks. I think where big/dual monitors make more sense are for admin style work -- when you need to, non pun intended, monitor, several things at once.
A fine example of how it's really difficult to express tone via text (I read it as pretty breezy, not antagonistic), and why we should all attempt to apply the principle of charity to everything we read before assuming someone's being a dick.
You can still do that, of course, but you will not be competitive with the likes of Ford and Toyota.
A higher-resolution screen, positioned closer to the eyeball, can substitute for a larger monitor. But even then, that uses only a fraction of my available visual field. VR technology could eventually solve the monitor area problem in a van-sized workspace. But for now, parent post is correct, screens with smaller pixels are the way to go. Just stick your face closer to it, and it will look bigger. This probably means you'll need an external mouse and keyboard, though.
Has nothing to do with resolution, either, once I've achieved a relatively normal resolution. Today, that's 1600x900.
I don't think I'm "using hand tools."
Yes. I've been on the road for more than 10 years now; travel with a lightweight (6.5 lbs) 23" LG monitor and my 15" Dell Precision laptop.
It's a fair bit of gear to heft around, but I tend to setup shop for at least 2 months at a time so the added weight isn't much of an issue.
Of course, I'd like a giant primary monitor to accompany the laptop, but that will have to wait for the day when I finally settle down.
I don't miss big monitors while on the go. Either I forgot how good they were or one get used to it. What I favor infinitely more is the mobility itself. I don't understand why remote people don't move more when given the chance.
YMMV, I still have a big monitor at home, else I would feel cut from my customers' typical setup. A problem with smaller screen is the additional eye strain.
I almost have more of an eye strain with multiple monitors because of more horizontal movement of my eyes, and often being a little bit further from the monitor. (and my bigger monitor isn't the same resolution as my laptop)
I have considered one below and one directly in front as well so it's up movement instead but I have yet to come up with a good mounting solution!
This would be wonderful I'm sure with one of the newer 12.9" iPad pros.
And for 1/10 of the cost you can pick up something like a "15.6” Widescreen Flat-Panel USB 3.0-Powered Portable LED Monitor - $99"
I do use multiple desktops on macOS and a quick swipe of the trackpad to switch them is almost as good for me as multiple displays.
I do tend to use an iPad as a aux display though. Sometimes I run Duet Display to have it act like an extra display for my MBP but most of the time it's home to my distractions like Slack, email, social media, etc. But it is good for books and websites while coding.
There are plenty of options for portable monitors these days though, if you do want a second screen while traveling.
In the end, I'm most productive on a 15" macbook at 1920x1200 resolution, the main reasons are:
0. I have my full perfect environment with me at all times, there is no switching between laptop/desktop etc. This is huge.
1. It's small and light enough that I can carry it around everywhere (unlike 17") - increasing productivity by a lot.
2. I'm forced to use the keyboard more which exercises the muscle memory so I switch much faster to any window in the current state without thinking about it.
3. My head doesn't need to move from one screen to another, this action is more expensive than an instant alt tab.
4. I found that the best work gets done in certain "focus scopes". Adding more windows/screens to this as you say "logs, command line, and editor all visible, and ideally a browser too" - leads to unnecessary visual data - since you can't process all those windows simultaneously anyway.
The 15" has just enough room to comfortably fit the necessities for each one I use:
a) 2 side by side editor @ 80 chars + file tree b) a browser window + debug tools c) terminal sessions with up to 8 panes d) a combination of browser / editor / terminal
The one exception is when needing to run background tasks which output logs - which you want to 'keep an eye' on - for this I found a vertical monitor on the side is helpful - although in the end replicated it by putting the terminals to the bottom right/left of the screen beside the dock - that way I can see the output, but they are not distracting.
That is why we, coders, are different from other 99,99% of population of the Earth. I gave the original post to my wife and her first question was “How’s the guy coping to live alone?”. But my question was exactly this: Why he has no monitor and using that inconvinient laptop stand instead? :)
Now I'm convinced that I'd never give-up my home-office for a van-office until serious advancements are made in the monitor-stand industry.
But then, of course, I am half-joking. I actually did find myself doing that research but after realizing the sitcom scene I put myself in, I gave up quickly: I don't even have a driver's license, and I'm researching the monitor-mount situation for a caravan-life?!
Not sure if that's coders or autistics (to be clear: NOFI).
My knee-jerk response is, "blissfully."
I live with my wife, a 19 month old, and two cats. I love them, but I would love, love, love to spend a week entirely by myself - going to bed and waking up on my own schedule.
Was still happy when my girlfriend arrived after a week though. But that one week was indeed 'bliss'.
You almost certainly are. Fifteen years is a long time, longer than my parents were married. You didn't have a break-up; you went through a divorce. A year sounds like the minimum amount of time it would take a person to deal with it. I wish you the best.
I took a couple of days to drive to the middle of nowhere in Oregon to see the eclipse by myself. My goal was literally to be as far from other people and as solitary as possible for the whole trip. (Not exactly easy given the expected crowds, but that was my hope.)
I slept in the back of my truck and barely spoke to a soul in 48 hours. It was absolute bliss.
I'd like to figure out to get a little more of that solitude in my life, but it's hard. Anytime I'm out recharging my spiritual batteries, my wife is at home solo-parenting with the kids draining hers more than twice as fast as usual.
Pics and video of the eclipse:
https://imgur.com/gallery/AWPxf
I love my daughter. That's the truth of it though. Sometimes it makes me you happy and you want to give and give and give. Sometimes it makes me you unhappy and you want to curse them for their wretched selfish neediness. It doesn't matter though. They'll take and take.
Of course I was the same way with my parents so it's all fair enough. But like you say, sometimes I find myself humming Hungry Heart ("I got a wife and kids in Baltimore Jack, I went out for a ride and I never came back") and just wishing they'd all just leave me along for a week. A day. A couple of minutes.
It also reminds me that when I got started the common display was a 14" CRT (i.e. viewable area more like 13") :)
Coding hunched over a laptop looks cool and hackery, coding with a big 27-inch monitor (maybe a couple) looks businessey.
I know a guy who does a lot of Excel work on a Macbook Air (1366x768 IIRC), and it just looks painful. When I suggest investing in a decent size/screen resolution monitor, he looks at me like I have two heads.
Looking like Mr Robot is more important for a lot of people than being practical, even if they end up with back problems in later life!
Then I got Apple's nice big 30" cinema display and everything was good.
Then it broke and right after that I started living nomadically with my 1900x1200 equivalent 15" retina laptop and never minded the difference.
I have good eyes after correction and use 9 point fonts everywhere so I can fit a lot of text on screen.
Helps focus and minimize your toolset in a way too, you want to be focused on one thing more than multiple things, so I guess that's kind of a good thing also, making things simpler.
I'd be paranoid that the monitor would fall on me. That may be good thing though as I'd avoid procrastination to get out of the danger zone as soon as possible.
Sometimes, I work from patio while smoking a cigar. Other times, I just need to try out a new coffeeshop on other side of town.
Dental exam chairs can be quite comfortable. The ones my dentist uses are comfortable enough I've almost fallen asleep during cleanings.
Virtual desktops mostly solved the area problem for me: switching between code/result/docs is just a chord away. The rare situations where switching is happening all the time account for less than 10% of my usage.
Fun fact: Antirez worked on Redis solely on a MacBook Air 11"
http://oldblog.antirez.com/post/apple-mba11-my-sole-computer...
When using a large screen, I struggle with figuring out where to look on the screen quickly. I could build habits that would remedy this by distributing things consistently on my screen, but then I'd have to build separate habits for my big screens and little screens.
I really enjoy the simplicity of my 11" MBAir and the portability of working anywhere. You get really good between swiping between desktops. And having limited screen space means I quiet down all the distracting notifications, popups, email, etc...
Also, a lot of dev work I do REPL-first development, then copy the code into the actual editor (on a different virtual desktop) and this minimizes the swiping around, and increases my productivity that way.
side topic, and not to start editor wars.. but you might want to look into emacs.
i don't. i have a laptop and a couple 24" monitors but over the last few years i've found myself just using the laptop more and more without the externals.
A laptop, monitor, keyboard, mouse, Herman Miller embody, Heat/AC... That's all I need.
If you want to be inspired by some cool hacks, though, look up Sprinter Van Conversions. People get into it and do some amazing work. They share their specs too! You can outfit a van with my above hardware list for about 4000-5000 if you don't get fancy. You have to plug in th AC usually. Heat is easier, you just have to insulate well. I got pretty far along this path of research. Some day.
Terminal/editor/browser are areas one doesn't work on at the same time, so windows switching does the job, at the condition of having only the strictly required windows opened (I have four: browser, email client, terminal, and editor), and even the browser has generally at most 2 or 3 tabs open.
I can see the convenience of having a log open while debugging, but I can live with terminal tab switching while having a REPL session.
System administration is different. It may be almost necessary at times, to have an individual look at several systems at the same time.
Nowadays I prefer working on my 12" MacBook.
Instead of getting greedier, I learned to manage my space, reduce distractions and improve workflow.
I learned to appreciate sane defaults and keep shit simple. My Terminal.app+tmux+vim+Bash setup is plugin-free and a git clone away. I mostly use standard Unix tools and feel super comfortable on any box. My Mac is light, synced with iCloud, uses little battery and has very few dependencies. I can work from anywhere and expect little. It's very liberating.
Photo: https://www.instagram.com/p/BUhYiNhFQOA/
I've seen others with projectors and big TVs. It's doable even in a standard size van.
I greatly prefer mobility over a monitor, and back when I used to have extra monitors it didn't provide that much more of a benefit. It would still be as much of a context switch the distance my eyes would travel to that other space on the monitor, as pressing ctrl + 2 into my second space.
I have used 7-inch and 15-inch USB powered LED monitors is the past with my laptop, at least once simultaneously. Works great for debugging CAD, Computer-Aided Design related bugs.
Especially if I only use my 10" Laptop. And then for example sitting in a loud, bumpy bus - well sure, office is much better.
But ... sitting on top of a mountain or somewhere else in the wilderness, is an awesome place to code. And combined with solar panels and camping equipment, can lead to very long and productive sessions(over days) ....
Because the outside beauty easily offsets the less comfortable workspace for me ...
But it also depends on the kind of work I do. If I have to do bugfixing ... that involve lots of logfiles, debugger-windows, console output etc. etc. than I am more productive in my office. But allmost everything else, especially designing a new module and also implementing it, I rather do outside ... much better inspiration.
I do admit it's a very large laptop, but it doesn't have to be.
I code in Vim, inside tmux, inside a terminal. All of my ide-type tasks happen there. Tests, code, whatever else.
Then I have a browser open. I keep it on a different virtual desktop and switch between.
I'm a web developer so that's about it. Sometimes I have postman or insomnia open, and I typically keep that on the same desktop as my browser.
(I used to code quite happily on an 11" MacBook Air, but Apple seems to have stopped caring about that line, so I abandoned them.)
Some of the best experiences of my life!
It was an amazing experience, and you learn a lot about people, culture, and yourself. One of the things I realized is that life always offers you options to complain about: I think the greatest inconveniences and discomforts of our ancestors of 200 years past have now been solved, but then taken for granted. We just adjust, become jaded and move on to new things to feel uncomfortable, complain about, and fear.
The experience was about making a story in my life that was more than just going back and forth between the same office, restaurants, etc. Getting out of my comfort zone and going on an adventure and exploring what is out there.
In winter, you head north; in summer, south. The weather is great. You meet nice people, and rude. Generous and benevelont, but also some rotten and even dastardly. There's no escaping the realities of our world; but what can maybe be done for ourselves is to try to escape our human nature to be spoiled with what we have, go outside our comfort zones and on the adventures we dream of. At minimum, it at least offers a lot of perspective.
But while all of this said is fair, to be honest: without the hedonism aspect--if I didn't so much enjoy surfing, the outdoors, and meeting new people--I would have quit such a long trip.
TL;DR if you have a good reason to believe you would enjoy it, being uncomfortable might not be a reason to avoid it.
> I would totally hate the lack of space and comfort.
I have 12 square meters and my bed is super comfortable. Most of the time I'm outside. Works perfect for me.
> I'd sleep really poorly at night when it's super hot in summer and cold in winter.
That's the whole thing about a van: If it's too hot in the mainland, you drive to the beach where you always have a chill breeze. In the winter you drive down south where it's warm. I actually feel bad for the people who have to stay in cities when it's hot and humid in the summer or freezing cold in the winter.
> I'd hate it to have to look for a good internet to work.
In Europe the 4G network coverage is amazing. Within the last five months I had less issues with my connectivity than some of my co-workers using a cable internet.
> I'd miss my friends all the time.
Yes, I do miss my friends. I guess this is a valid concern. But sometimes I meet my friends when they are on vacation nearby and for Christmas I will fly back to my hometown to see family and friends.
> I'd dislike having to socialize with random van neighbors every time I want to not dine alone.
I guess that's personal taste. It's very easy to socialize with travelers: they invite your for dinner right away. Sometimes you even don't have to approach them actively. I've also spent a couple of weeks with the same people and we had dinner together every evening. Once you life in a van you often meet people who do the same. So basically you have friends near by.
To expand on this based on my and my parents experiences, we have friends from ~10-15 years ago when they were full time RVers that we still stay in contact with. They often go travel around the US and meet/stay with them.
I try to make it a point to remember that, regardless of who people are or how you meet them, you never know when you're going to make a lasting friendship. I think, paradoxically, it's sometimes easier to make friends in a situation where everyone doesn't have high expectations.
Also we made acquaintance with a guy who traveled with an entire array of fantastically high quality whisk(e)y. Yes, we did stay a little longer there as a result, and yes, it was totally worth it.
Same experience for me. I've got a 4G dongle that I use for travelling and it's both faster and more reliable than my home broadband connection (no fiber available in my area). Just keeping an eye out for a cheap 4G data SIM so I can switch to the dongle full time.
Recent EU roaming regs are also a boon, buy a data SIM in your country of residence and get coverage across the EU at no extra cost!
Do you get enough data volume? Most sim cards for use with computer are quite restricted. Or can you live off 10GB/month?
Apparently it can also vary at any given moment, depending on equipment failures and access to equipment issues.
I'd recommend getting a couple of cheap-ish pre-loaded data SIMs from EE and Three, and have your main data SIM with someone else.
I carry a 500MB/month EE 4G SIM that was cheap in Argos, in an unlocked 4G EE wifi router dongle. I have an O2 (MVNO) SIM in my phone.
Plus an assortment of pre-loaded (but not activated) SIMs in the event I need Three, or need more data.
I've not had any luck at all with Voda, but should I give them another shot?
Where do you plan on leaving your van while you are away? Are you worried about security?
But even if I leave the van somewhere unattended: I take my laptop and wallet with me. Other than that I don't have much valuable things in my van: If someone wants to steal my underwear that I've been wearing for ten years: fine go for it.
At the end everything in my van is replaceable. Including the van itself ;)
The fresh air and the much less polluted environment will allow you to sleep like a baby.
In reality while I was living at the middle of nowhere, I never had any issues sleeping. And i think the too worm/ too cold thing is just an excuse to yourself. There are other things in your mind, like stress etc that won't allow you to sleep well.
When I moved to London, I had quite a lot of trouble sleeping here and there, as I am having more stress etc.
Hopefully everything will be over in less than a month when I am moving back to the middle of nowhere and the new job I got is much less stressful etc.
Unfortunately it's much more awkward in the UK. So much of this country is private land and everyone's so afraid of gypsies that you're basically prevented from setting up a van nearly anywhere.
I work remotely and I've started experiencing leg problems from sitting too much. So I'm now trying to set the trend of "wood-working"; where I go for a walk to the woods nearby, sit on a rock by the river, and do some coding. It might catch on ;)
For routine stuff I just need to crank out, it's headphones and coffee, but real thinking I do better in nature. All the mental distractions and trivia fade away.
Nature is the best part of this world for me. Everything else is a distraction. I know this afternoon I get to go hike up a canyon and climb the rim up to see a natural arch. On a normal Tuesday. So I'm going to get my shit done when it's a perfect day out with the sun shining in my eyes. Then I get to play.
I take a solid-fuel stove out with me so I have a good supply of tea + food, which helps!
Except Scotland. There's no law of trespass in Scotland. Also, a lot of it is pretty empty!
EDIT: now I’m genuinely curious, so please help me out Europeans. Scroll to the bottom and relieve my ignorance: is this considered to be a “van” in Europe? https://ruby-on-wheels.github.io/blog/the-first-ride/ Because I think you’d be hard-pressed to find someone in the U. S. that would call that a camper van.
> A campervan (or camper van), sometimes referred to as a camper, or a caravanette, is a self-propelled vehicle that provides both transport and sleeping accommodation. The term mainly describes vans that have been fitted out, often with a coachbuilt body for use as accommodation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campervan
I connect "RV" with something like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Rv_class....
My mobile home is built on top of Mercedes 209D and is 6 meters long and 2 meters wide. It almost fits into a regular parking lot. I leave it up to the experts whether this is a van, campervan or whatever?
To me personally, and I'd extrapolate to the U. S. population, a "van" or "camper van" is a camper that kept the original body. For instance, classic VW Westfalia, Chevrolet/Ford 1/2 ton conversion vans (RoadTrek), VW California in Europe, Sportsmobile in U.S./Canada. But the instant the original body comes off (or more accurately, never had a body to begin with) and a new one goes on, it's an RV. To put it another way, when Westfalia received VW Vanagons to build out, the Vanagon had a full body (just stripped). When whoever built your camper received the vehicle, all it had was a frame and a drivetrain, with no body.
But, again, you need not answer to me, call it whatever you want. :-)
Yours would be a Class C
Campervan in the US is associated more with Class B's
The difference is Class A is a complete custom body, Class C is a cutaway where the cab is built by the chassis maker but the house body is not like yours. Class B is basically a van body on the outside.
There are variations, Super C's, B plus and so on.
How do you deal with the toilet troubles though?
Also, can you give some details on how do you avoid cold weather? My girlfriend tells me there are areas in Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece where summer is much longer and the winter basically means 13-17 degrees without snow -- in the worst case scenario.
I was profoundly touched by your article. I am at a point of my life when I feel a desperate and very strong need for a change. Reasons are a lot and I don't want to derail this thread by making my comment a public confession -- suffice to say, I realize I dislike a part of my life and I want to do something about it.
Truth be told however, I like my mega-strong internet (Bulgaria). I like being able to go buy cooked food when I feel lazy or sick or tired and don't want to cook -- telling yourself "get a grip and cook!" sounds like stress and forcing myself and not like something that relaxes you. I like being able to go to a cinema on a whim.
The city gives me the sense of being able to spontaneously do various things.
I really want to try some nomadism -- or at least travel to 10+ places during a period -- and as a 37 y/o with a burnout, nature's appeal grows in me with each passing week.
Overall, I am happy your format worked for you -- it made me consider some traveling very seriously and I started to weigh pros and cons.
Thank you.
Give it a try!
> I really want to try some nomadism
I am actually interested in the details. Though my situation was different, I actually lived in a van for 5 years.
So:
- How do you manage having no home address? Do you use PO boxes, do you have relatives who provide you with an address for administrative tasks (taxes, ...)? For me, I used my parents' address.
- Winter is coming! How do you plan for cold weather? Gas heater? And while going to the toilets or showering outside is great in the summer, it is much less fun during winter. Water tanks freezing may also be a problem. Winter was a bit rough but manageable in southern France, I can't imagine Germany... BTW, a heated blanket is a great ally, though it uses a bit of power.
- Your van is clearly a RV. RVs are not always welcome. Didn't you have too much trouble finding nice places that are also van-friendly? I suppose you also need internet coverage, access to grocery stores and laundries, a fresh water source and waste water disposal, etc...
Where? How come? And are campervans more welcome? :)
Some beaches explicitly prohibit RVs, or put gates that make it impossible for such large vehicles to pass.
Campervans are less problematic, because unless they are heavily customized they look like regular vans, so you can park almost anywhere without raising too many eyebrows. They also tend to have a smaller profile, which helps with road restrictions.
My parents toured Europe several times and they use an almost stock white cargo van for the reasons I stated above.
Why do we allow home prices to be so expensive? Simply no one from my (millenial) generation can afford to buy a house. Home prices are so beyond insane, and it's crippling my generation.
I make $200k a year and I'm unable to buy a house where I live. That's how fucked it is.
That's not the problem here.
House prices (in my location) have risen from 4x the average annual salary to 10x. Like the above commentor, I'm better off than most and I can just barely manage to scrimp and save enough to enter the housing market, by buying the parents home at a slight discount. There's not much more I could sacrifice.
I have a huge advantage on the average Joe for a number of reasons and am still struggling. Sure, it's possible for me, but it's not possible for them. And that's the problem.
All the solutions proposed by politicians (affordable housing, regulation) only serve to make the problem worse. The answer is, we need: massive increase in housing supply or a decrease in the # of employers/jobs in this area.
I'm sure there's countless VCs and founders that want to solve this Housing/Transportation problems ~ potentially a multi-trillion dollar opportunity. But, it's absolutely unassailable: the barriers to entry are so extreme, and the amount of government legislation and politics in the way is so insurmountable, I don't even know of a single company or startup that's legitimately working on this problem. It's a man made problem, that will require a man-made solution. It'll take an army of politicians to make this happen, perhaps a startup filled with politicians, not engineers.
Whether it's direct ownership of debt or intermediated through pensions, insurance companies, or banks, saving for retirement is largely done through putting others in debt. More people savings more aggressively means money gets cheaper until the market clears. Cheaper money means you can finance higher bids on assets prices such as homes and university educations.
I have no idea how to fix it. I don't even know if it's possible. Making housing cheaper on a national scale means nuking pensions as people walk away from underwater mortgages. Probably the best bet is to inflate away these nominal obligations, but that has its own host of issues with screwing over retirees. Between lowering birth rates and improving health care, we as a society have been steadily ratcheting up the percentage of our economic output going towards supporting retirement. That's not sustainable when combined with how we've been also ratcheting up our standards of living. These trade off against each other, and it feels to me like the Boomers chose "both, but our kids pay for it".
How is he going to feel after another 150 days? Camping in winter can be fun, but it's not warm. At all. Trying to work in a van when it's below freezing outside will be pretty hard work. I can't even type when the room drops below 15 degrees. Vans like the one he has are basically uninsulated steel boxes - they get cold pretty fast.
BTW: I bought the van in February and already worked and slept in the van while it was freezing cold: https://ruby-on-wheels.github.io/blog/the-first-ride/ it was ok.
Depends on the country. There are places where winter is like 30 degrees. And you can always have a portable heater -- in a small van it will heat it up completely.
And the problem is that weather is not independent. If it's very cold in Portugal for a few weeks it's usually also cold in much of the rest of Southern Europe.
In places like Malaga, Crete, Cyprus, etc it's the average low temperature is like 10-13 degrees (52-55 f). Hardly very cold if you've ever experienced NY, Chicago, Canada, Norther Europe levels of cold. And of course it's very easy to heat a small van.
You must be joking ;-)
I've spent 4 winters in the Algarve. While they don't get the classic beach breaks of SW France (Hossegor, Seignosse, Capbreton), there are some excellent spots down there (the point breaks at Arifana and Zavial in particular). Also, when massive winter swells come on the west coast (i.e. too big to surf), drive 30 minutes to the south coast and enjoy glassy perfection.
Locals have no problem dropping in on you, however; not as civil as the French are in that respect, but can't blame them, spots can get crowded.
She used to make awesome cycling caps, did the PCT, and is now traveling around America in a Vanagon.
An inexpensive, decent van build can be done for <$5000. My bus cost somewhere around $50k so far, including the vehicle.
> How much was the initial cost of the van?
I bought the van for 7.000 Euro.
> How did you maintain your internet connection?
I'm working with 4G. Works perfect all most everywhere in Europe! I use a pre-paid Italian SIM-Card that I can use all over Europe. It costs me 9 Euros for 20 GB. I usually need around 30 to 50 GB a month. So it's roughly 20 Euros per month.
You can read more about the technical setup here: https://ruby-on-wheels.github.io/blog/turning-my-van-into-a-...
> What would you say is the biggest struggle?
I'm currently in Madrid. Living the van life in big cities is more challenging. Especially if you don't want to stay in the suburbs. I plan to write a article about my city experiences in Madrid soon.
>Giga International: 9 € - including 20 GB data valid for 28 days. The activation fee is 5 € and the SIM card is 9 €, making the total cost 25 € for the first month and 9 € for subsequent months. This offer is only for customers with foreign citizenship.
Email is in profile :)
As soon as I have enough funding to get the gear, I'm off!
(there are exceptions - some people never do and they should perhaps stay on shore)
It was by far one of the best experiences of my life. The soothing rocking motion, loose halyard clanking, and salty ocean air at night certainly helped get me through the 60-70 hour weeks.
P.S. A little hack for anyone who might try this, put your wifi router and modem in your dock box. That way you can shove off any time without having to unscrew the coax cable.
If the author is reading this, some questions:
- How do you deal with solitude? Most can handle it but seeing as everyday is a new day in a new place there must be an urge to share that with somebody.
- This mode of living must have an impact on the ol' love life. What do the ladies say - if you meet many at all - when you suggest going back to your van/office/home?
- What are your plans for the Winter? I imagine just go as south-west as possible to chase the sun.
I haven't experienced solitude so far. Sometimes I even leave crowded spots because I want some time for myself. I travel in Europe, not in Alaska. I meet people everyday and on top of that I have a regular job and interact with my co-workers every weekday. Mostly asynchronous and sometimes synchronous.
> This mode of living must have an impact on the ol' love life. What do the ladies say - if you meet many at all - when you suggest going back to your van/office/home?
Yes, this is can be a problem. Sometimes you meet people who don't love the "simple" life like I do. I respect their opinions and either spend time with them in their world or make a compromise, e.g. stay on a campsite that offers all the facilities you have in a regular apartment.
But at the end you usually hangout with people that get a long with you and your life style?
> What are your plans for the Winter? I imagine just go as south-west as possible to chase the sun.
Yes, I'll follow the warm weather once my naked feet get cold here.
> Sometimes you meet people who don't love the "simple" life like I do.
Hey, if the ladies don't dig the man with the van, their loss!
When I'd go on week long + backcountry hiking or canoe trips I always felt like all the other stuff you have just don't matter. Time away from stuff doesn't make you miss it, it makes you realize you don't need any of it.
I moved down to Redwood City but the cops basically harassed me, and treated me like a criminal. I finally would park in my van outside of Social Capital in Palo Alto.
Palo Alto remains a legal place to live the van life. You'll also meet a bunch of other van dwellers from tech companies around there. There is even a couple of secret facebook groups for nerds working/living out of their van in and around SF/BA.
The second is illness: I ate some bad chicken earlier this year and was violently ill, projectile liquid from both ends ill, for three whole days. It was miserable but bearable because I had an apartment with a bed and a bathroom. I can't imagine what it would have been like in a van.
IF you want/need to live in a city. The west has tons of public land with an LTE signal. I'm hanging out on BLM land in the middle of gorgeous Utah right now.
The US is large. There are tons of places you can park without issue. BLM land, for example, is explicitly available for anyone to use. Most cities don't have anti vehicle dwelling laws. All you have to do is go somewhere that doesn't care.
> The second is illness: I ate some bad chicken earlier this year and was violently ill, projectile liquid from both ends ill, for three whole days. It was miserable but bearable because I had an apartment with a bed and a bathroom. I can't imagine what it would have been like in a van.
OP has an RV with a bathroom. It'd be much like your apt but with less distance to travel between the toilet and your bed.
First of all working in a van for a long haul will probably be painful for your back. No standing desk no office chair and desk set up will not be comfortable to code for more then a few hours.
Most of time working remote you need power and wifi. There is an expectation that you will be online during similar hours as your co-workers as peers. Maybe not exactly but similarly. So you gotta have a pocket wifi if doing this.
Working in a van most days alone can be isolating. Trust me you will feel it. Even when you go to an office and don't speak much to people it still helps with social aspect. Being online and talking to co workers does too. If you have a pocket WiFi and are not totally off grid able to engage with famile or friends and colleagues online then it will be helpful.
With climate change worsening sometimes it's hot really hot. It will be difficult to be outside for long stretches of time in a wide variety of places due to worsening climate change. When you are in the office you will not notice how bad it's getting less. Reading the news daily and seeing all the issues connecting to climate changes helps but working outside you really feel it directly. Historically a town might have had temperatures of 23 C now it's 28 C to 30 C on the bad days. However during working at an office you are usually in an AC building from 9 to 18 missing the hottest parts of day. When you work remotely to you will know how bad things are and it will trouble you more if you try to work in a van connected to nature. It's gonna be hot.
Working remote is great but there are some drawbacks like everything in life. Those you need to be mindful of before onsetting on that path.
I totally agree. Working remotely is not just awesome. But I prefer it over a regular office job which has more downsides for me.
> First of all working in a van for a long haul will probably be painful for your back. No standing desk no office chair and desk set up will not be comfortable to code for more then a few hours.
I do a lot of sport (surfing, cycling, swimming pull-ups and other exercises for my back). I usually take regular breaks to avoid sitting in the same position for too long. My back feels great!
> Most of time working remote you need power and wifi. There is an expectation that you will be online during similar hours as your co-workers as peers. Maybe not exactly but similarly. So you gotta have a pocket wifi if doing this.
Check out my mobile office setup: https://ruby-on-wheels.github.io/blog/turning-my-van-into-a-... and https://ruby-on-wheels.github.io/blog/turning-my-van-into-a-.... I have power and internet 24h 7 days a week. My connection is more reliable than some of my co-workers who work from home.
> When you work remotely to you will know how bad things are and it will trouble you more if you try to work in a van connected to nature. It's gonna be hot.
Yes, sometimes it just to hot. I've experienced this in the inland. My solution: I drive to the mountains or the beaches where the climate is milder. Or I take a siesta and wait until the sun sets to work. I can work whenever I want. Another advantage of a remote job!
Great fun! You really learn to optimise your setup around current draw and avoiding overheat :) My biggest lessons were combining mosh and tmux It'd be more of a struggle as a front end developer.
Are these projects you were working on before the trip - or were they a full time gig already?
I'm always curious how people are able to do these sorts of things!
It was a lucky mix of timing and life circumstance. Single, late twenties had just finished most heavy development work in 2010 and the sytems were running smoothely, a good bossfriend who knew I was hard to replace and I had a sister to catch up with on the other side of the country.
I lived 5 years in SF & then the Hacker Dojo was born just as I was leaving. Since then, while sitting in my van, I just dream of sitting at the hacker dojo!
Some of it is a great lifestyle. Tips on cheap data: Morocco, Portugal, Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, Spain (not as cheap). ($1/GB) Somehow almost everyone else is ridiculously expensive. More like $10-20 / GB.
The US now has Verizon unlimited. Something like 80 a month for unlimited data!? It's tempting to put the camper on a boat & go back.
Also, if you are going to work out of a van, you are going to need consistent power. Please do not use a generator! Stick about 4 flexible solar panels on the roof. They can be attached with good 3m zip tie mounts & zip ties. One hole drilled through the roof. Get a lithium (lifepo4) battery & a controller from electrodacus.
I succesfully used a small foldable panel during my bicycle nomadism
Disclaimer: Living/renting in Dublin/Ireland.
With kids, I don't think it would be a great thing to do for super-long term. I remember reading an article recently about a family that has been traveling the world for several years with their kids. I wonder what sort of effect that would have on their social development, since they wouldn't be able to form any long-term relationships.
Especially from the mate's mother: "When are you going to stop this nonsense and get a real job and a home?".
I know several people that have been backpacking and doing the working-holiday thing for 4 or 5 years. Never staying in one city for more than around 3 months, and moving countries when their working holiday visa expires.
Their families have mostly been saying the same thing. Settling down isn't for everyone.
He's working full time as an engineer, and living life. Not only that but it's safe to assume his expenses are way lower than 90% of us here.
Is it because he isn't in crazy debt 'owning' a house, and 'owning' a nice car, married with a kid? What is there to catch up to him?
I would agree with you if he was just bumming about living off ramen and working random part time jobs that 13 year olds could have, but he isn't.
To be fair, they probably just want grandchildren.
Is it possible to have a family living a stable life without an home/appartment ?
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/04/24/vanlife-the-bo...
Five Harsh Truths You Need To Consider Before You Start Living The #Vanlife
I work full time remote out of a home office, but I couldn't think of much worse of an idea going on a "working holiday". I've done it and it just distracts me from enjoying my time.
I mean, is the author really productive or just having fun and doing much less work?
I'm not judging anyone for working less, I'm all for it, but this taking your work with you everywhere sounds horrible.
Primary, Ive worked a full-time job as (senior) software engineer and on the side (as much as a possibly can get away with it) building businesses for the last year of college + the last three years. During that time I never once took more than a single day break from coding. That is four years with no vacation / adventure.
I coded after everyone went to sleep, on planes, trains, ships, etc. Believe it or not I'm also married and have a fairly active social life.
I found that traveling, and working makes it possible for me to see things I otherwise wouldn't. I also noticed that changing up my scenery made it possible for me to be more productive. Might not be like this for everyone, but I'm more invigorated when new stuff is going on. It keeps my brain on point.
I should note, that since then I took my first real vacation in four years. It was two weeks doing w.e., traveling with my wife. Honestly, it was awesome to be away. That doesn't mean I don't bring my work with me now (as perhaps I'm overly ambitious), but I do intend to unplug now for at least two weeks every year.
However, I can see how this guy would be able to travel and might even be more productive if they do it right.
The photo of laptop side of caravan in front of the beach looks nice though unsure in practice (smell) can you focus sort of thing, regardless cool, like the mobility idea it's what I strive for some day.
Being young and looking to save on expenses, living in a van is one of the best decisions I've made.
Is it with an existing client who is flexible or do you take short term contracts instead?
I find Assange's early life [1] relevant to this conversation. He lead a nomadic life, lived in over 30 towns throughout his lifetime. One could say it affected his nomadic adult lifestyle.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange#Early_life (contains relevant sources)
Most countries have agreements to avoid double taxation, meaning you just declare the income in the home country, as long as you spend less then half a year in the other country. The agreements usually have some rules regarding which country counts as the home country if you e.g. own property in both of them.
Very cool though!
MGTOW life seems like a much better way to live.
- High rents, even in Berlin nowadays
- There are more options but also much more competition for finding the right accommodation, job and spouse
- In particular, finding your long-term partner can be a huge struggle in a big city in times of Tinder where nobody is committed anymore
For some the solution is just to escape, avoid the challenge and call it nomad life (this is my feeling when I read such stories, maybe I am wrong).
However, once they have kids, they have to settle and are back to square one.
I don't necessarily think it's back to square one. One doesn't have to settle in a big city.
I moved out of London when my first child was due. We moved to a mid-sized (250k population) European city. I was able to find work, in an unrelated field to my previous experience but still using similar technical and management skills. The remuneration is less than I was earning in London, but the cost of living is significantly lower too.
This was a lifestyle choice and the environment is much better, in my view, for raising children. Only my view of course, but in this case "better" means things like more green space, less pollution, less crime etc.
It's not been 100% plain sailing. I have had to overcome a language barrier (not fully achieved that). I do feel culturally adrift sometimes. And Brexit seems to be trying to screw everything up.
However, I still don't feel like I'm back to square one.
(I'm originally from London, and I also live in a smaller European city).
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/07/london...
https://www.teachers.org.uk/expert-view/why-attainment-highe...
I'm still living in a city, just a small one. Having checked Wikipedia, it tells me the population is officially 320k. There are six Universities and the city is UNESCO listed as a Cultural Heritage site. I just don't see this location disadvantaging my child. In fact, I think it's a location with a pretty good mix of culture and nature.
Nothing is perfect of course, but I think we're in a better position than if we'd stayed in London.
If we were to move back to the UK, I'd be looking at somewhere like Cambridge or Edinburgh perhaps.
I grew up in a city of 100k, and I had all the opportunities that someone growing up in a bigger city would have. The quality of teaching was fine too. I did go to a larger school, with 2300 pupils though.
you could start a remote business and make the hours longer allowing for kid related interruptions.
Indulging them is probably the worst thing you can do, just say no.
Also, this life style is nice for getting to know yourself, what do you really want? Maybe you thought you were a city dweller but now you know you feel better closer to nature. You also learn that you don't need much as a human, that is a very comforting though that can get you through difficult times.
Changing your lifestyle may not always be pleasant (at first) but you learn about yourself. For example, I though I was a real backpacker, turns out I get very stressed when I have to get in random taxis and I convince myself almost everyone wants to screw me (in the bad way) and I have constant inner dialogue about why I would care about being screwed for a couple of euros. Now I plan thing differently, maybe I someday really learn to relax. But it won't be by sitting at home, I know that for sure. For now, I have kids and already learn that I don't like my life style to adventurous (maybe I'm not even that adventurous without kids), and I'm ok with that... even though that took some time to accept.
It's not because nomad life is so great, often it's because they struggled because--again--life in developed areas is tough and so they opted for the easier way.
Moreover, those have still some home base in an developed country, a back door where they can always settle again, so it's not really nomad, it's just a long vacation labeled as something adventurous.
For us from developed countries, it's so easy to take our backpack and travel dozens of countries and just spent a fraction of what we would spent in NY, London or Berlin. You know it's really nothing special or something people should admire. Everyone from a developed country can do this. But nobody from not so developed countries could and want to do this. I personally would miss a goal and again the challenge. I can just buy a ticket in 5 minutes and go, find some remote work and live for peanuts. Where is the problem, everyone can do this There is no risk and no goal. And because your FB friends got tired of all your useless and boring nomad posts you need to write now public blog posts and spam social news sites telling people that what you do is great justifying your goal-less endeavour to yourself.
So, another popular reason of being a 'nomad' might be: I am struggling with the high competition in my current environment, want to save money or spent a fraction in an underdeveloped country and live like a king. But not like I want to know who I am (maybe they know it afterwards but I think it's rather unrelated).
Not all of us want to escape. We just want to see the world and learn. I grew up in a small town, I dont have a place I could call home apart the earth...
On the other hand, I know there is an increase of people that want to escape, but maybe they have a reason to do it. City life is not for everyone. Many of us want to have a slower life, cherishing small things in nature and learn about the world directly, without intermediaries.
And I dont think is about struggling with the high competition or have a cheaper life somewhere else. Some of us just prefer to have a different life style. Some people chose to have 2 cars, a house and lots of stuff inside, some others just prefer to have only one backpack with their belongings in it and move slowly around the world...
My point is that there is not one way of living. I was raised in a way where I had to follow just one path but seeing people living differently made me realize the diversity of lifestyles and made me aware of so many options in life.
Which is exactly what small town life is. No need to go nomad for that. In my experience, backpacking is neither slow life, nor cherishing small thing. It may be compared to multi-million city, but it's not compared to living in small town or village.
Backpacking is not black or white. There is backpackers who multihop cities every couple of days to get laid in backpacker hostels, some others travel slow, some to remote places, some others move where there is food and work, some others follow adventure, some others backpack while volunteering...
> In particular, finding your long-term partner can be a huge struggle in a big city in times of Tinder where nobody is committed anymore
You're projecting here -- the article never mentioned anything related to a partner. Also, wait what? COMPETITION for a spouse? If you look at your desired gender that way, I think it might actually do you good to live as a nomad for a while.
"Nobody is committed anymore" -- change your social circles. Go attend local events related to your work and hobby. Go hold a lecture somewhere and have drinks with a few of the studens.
You can do a heckload of things to change your environment even without moving away from the city. You sound bitter, you need to work on some change in your life.
I for one am not very happy in my current city anymore but that might be because of shitty rented flats. Currently actively seeking my own place but my internal voices never give me a moment's peace because I think I want to live by the sea, which is practically impossible in my country because the "cities" there are awfully small, boring, and have mediocre Internet.
Oh well.
I know couple of people like that. Just to make a point your argument about these people trying to escape because they can't make it in a big city is not necessarily true. At least not universally true, there might be people that fit your description.