Medical marijuana patients report reduction in use of prescription drugs | Hacker News Reader

Medical marijuana patients report reduction in use of prescription drugs

chicagotribune.com

112 pointslnguyen53 comments

A friend was oscillating between drunk & sober... She told me that her neighbor had offered to smoke up with her.

"You're going to, right?"

She protested that she might need to take a drug test. I replied that she was never going to be able to keep a job like she was (she'd lost 3 jobs over the course of a year on account of not being able to cope with "stress" without the assistance of the devil's drink).

She smoked up with her neighbor and got her medical cannabis card a few months later. She's doing much better now. Art therapy has been a big breakthrough, but cannabis got her stable enough to get to the studio.

She got a CBD vapor pen for my girlfriend, who had methadone-induced alcohol dependency. My girlfriend said the CBD really helped control the anxiety which she'd been using the alcohol to self-treat. This CBD pen got stolen from her before she was arrested, which might've been fortunate because that would've been more charges (prosecutors gotta prosecute, to justify their salaries).

I think CBD [1] is the most beneficial portion of "medical marijuana". Never used it myself,

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol

There are some good prescriptions, but mostly the latest patent medicines are just palliative drugs that don't actually help much. Drug companies gotta hustle [2], to pay their investors...

[2] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hustle

A close friend have used CBD for about a year to help him with prostate cancer, he says that without it he would probably have killed himself due to the stress of not being able to handle a job, have no money and being sick at the same time. This is a person that worked at both SAAB and Volvo as a project lead for many years so being beaten down from such a high horse by life take such a mean twist means a drastic change to your character. So I'm glad that CBD exists or I'm quite sure this man, my best friend, wouldn't.

Could you give me all you know about CBD vaping ? have you seen/tried home inhalers ? (things you put on table and stick your nose to, to breath calmly)

I'm trying to source one for my mother who started to smoke cigarettes again.

I have CBD oil but I didn't find it enough for anxiety (although it seemed to have done wonders on psoriasis patches).

I haven't tried the CBD carts in over a year, but I've used the Honey Vape cartridges in the past, non-cbd and they have a Trident strain that I was thinking about ordering.(Dream Market) I have some ACDC flower that I currently use that has essentially no THCA, which contains he psycho active effects, and high CBD content. I couldn't recommend it enough. I have psoriasis and a lot of arthritis from years of lifting heavy weights and contact sports.

It's remarkable how this isn't legal in all 50 states already, but within the next 5 years, I have a feeling it will go national.

Not sure if that's the same, but consider this kind of device: https://www.paxvapor.com/

Kind of.

The newest model has the capability to use oils, but it was primarily used for vaporizing flower.

I learned here at HN that tobacco is compelling for many people because of the combination of MAOI chemicals and nicotine.

Niacinamide is very similar to nicotine. I've read reports of niacinamide supplementation helping people quit smoking.

There's a cheap blue aquarium chemical that has MAOI properties...

I could research that, I also stumbled upon a research paper about neonicotinids found in .. honey or something stupid like that.

Depending on which state you live in access to high CBD is restricted. I believe CO and WA allow high CBD, OR only allows low CBD at this time. Not sure about other states.

How high is high ? above 10%

In Europe THC is illegal but CBD is allowed to be produced in some countries, although I don't know the concentration limits.

I live in Colorado.

CBD is a fascinating substance. I've tried CBD vape pens (best way to use it, because it doesn't stand up very well to the digestive system when eaten) and the effect is completely non-psychoactive. Friends of mine on prescription anti-anxiety meds have stated that it works better than their meds, and is actually LESS intoxicating than their pills.

Another property that is widely reported is the way it helps people with chronic pain. Reportedly, they claim to still feel the pain, but notice it is "shifted to the background" and doesn't interfere with their tasks in the workplace.

Most importantly, unlike scrips like Lexapro, the user doesn't develop a sharp dependence. A friend of mine on Lexapro has potent withdrawals the moment they stop taking it. This makes sense, because the MD who prescribed it told him he would need to do a "step-down" over a period of weeks to stop the medication. CBD has none of that issue.

Step down process is necessary with every AD, possibly with everything that messes your senses. Unfortunately, often doctors don't emphasize the need as much as they should. If you slowly go off, it's not s big deal.

Outside of America there is not an opioid crisis, therefore marijuana is there along the way to class A drugs. So class A addicts could get weed just as easily and possibly easier than their normal substances. In theory they could 'get off the heroin' by smoking weed instead. This never happens even though the option is there.

Meanwhile, in America, where the doctors got everyone hooked on class A drugs, the marijuana was bypassed, along with smoking. Regular people went along for tooth and other operations to end up opioid addicts. They were not hanging out with the wrong crowd, they went to their doctors for help with pain. Their route to being hooked has been entirely different, so maybe using marijuana for the underlying pain management is worth a go. As things currently stand there is the sorry rehab process or prison/death, hopefully weed really can offer a better way back to a normal life for them.

I would love to see a high-quality, randomized double-blind study on the effectiveness of CBD oil both with and without other pain medications on non-marijuana savvy people with lifetime chronic pain diseases such as peripheral neuropathy.

Poland just legalized medical Cannabis thanks to one 'rebel' doctor(Marek Bachański) going against hospital management to treat drug resistant epilepsy in children. It started with him getting fired in 2015, then parents of the children riling up, whole thing going public and sparking conversations, lawsuit lost by the hospital, reinstation and finally passing a law.

http://herb.co/2017/07/26/poland-medical-cannabis/

This is a pretty weak article, and (from what I can make out), a pretty weak study too. Obviously, there's the usual concern about sample sizes (30 people does not a scientific study make), but this study is also self-selected (i.e. survey respondents chose whether to take part or not - obviously a considerable source of bias), and even more worryingly, it appears that the "study" in question is simply a survey where participants report changes in their own use of prescription drugs. So not only are there very few participants in the study - but they're also self-selected, and so are their answers. This is anecdata at its finest and really shouldn't be in a peer-reviewed journal. (P.S. the journal article itself isn't linked on the Chicago Tribune's website at all...).

I really think there is genuine medical potential to be discovered from cannabis and exploited for the greater good - but our enthusiasm to access these potential benefits should not get in the way of doing good science. This sort of badly-executed study just cheapens genuine efforts to do sensible research into its medical value.

One of the issues that isn’t obvious is the difficulty in actually doing any reported MMJ study, let alone one that was done by respected institutions. While one can argue about the significance of the small sample size, it’s amazing that there’s an actual reportable group

We better ban this stuff so our drug companies don't go out of business!

Expect for the "medical marijuana" prescription

Yes if you using medical marijuana you probably substituting that for something else

Things like this surprise me. Marijuana has never struck me as something to take for pain. In my experience it heightens sensations and increases paranoia while stimulating appetite. I don't see that as especially useful for treating something like tooth pain. Are these patients just getting super baked to the point of comatose?

The issue is the THC vs CBD content that’s being provided. Most of the medical/medicinal aspects are focused on strains with more CBD while recreational emphasizes THC

My girlfriend uses it when the M.E gets really bad and the pills don't do a lot. It depends on the strain.

For the record, most marijuana users who use it for pain have chronic pain issues and have often been prescribed very strong painkillers. Marijuana is an alternative to opiates, not paracetamol.

In my own experience as someone who does not suffer chronic pain, it helps me relax, and doesn't increase paranoia. I could definitely understand it being useful in limited doses for people it works for.

Quite honestly, when the alternative is unbearable suffering, what does it matter if they are? It apparently still represents an improvement in their quality of life.

Did I say it matters?

Some of you seem so predisposed to be on the defense in this topic it's difficult to even have a casual discussion without becoming adversarial.

It's worth knowing if some forms of marijuana can effectively treat pain without significant impairment.

Ive had some pretty bad headaches (some lasting multiple days) that over the counter meds (tylonol, advil, caffeine) did not help. In some cases weed completely knocked out the headache.

There are two main stranis: Indica and Sativa.

Indica has more cbd and Sativa has more thc.

cbd -> good against pain; thc -> good for high.

just to be clear to those who don't know. Don't go smoke indica not expecting to get high. It too can have high levels of thc and is just as good for getting high. The high is a bit different, but you are are still high as hell

My observation is that what you state is not remotely true. If you want more CBD, get a high CBD strain. The indicas I see here in the Seattle area have a couple of percent, at best, of CBD. That's why most stores have a "high CBD" section for those that just want pain management, because the other stuff will have minimal CBD and will get you higher than a kite.

As for THC, without even looking at the label I can tell you indica has just as much THC because nothing gives me "couch lock" (just sit on the couch and binge Netflix) like a good indica. In comparison to sativa, which will get me high but I can still get off the couch.

In my experience it's great for pain and that's backed up by science[0]

You sound pretty glib and uninformed, which is not a useful combination.

[0]http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/can.2017.0012

I found his question perfectly reasonable. Furthermore, his experience can be confirmed by many 'experienced' weed smokers. I'd say it really depends on the strain, and perhaps also on whether you're using weed or hash.

I posted a scientific study backing up my claims. You offered anecdata like OP. I am just going to sit here and smirk.

I am just going to sit here and smirk.

That's the problem, you seem content to feel superior rather than offering useful information. Granted, you actually did both, but if you had simply posted your link without the snarky assumption of the OP's state of mind, perhaps you would have been better received.

I at no point disagreed with your claim that weed helps with pain. Furthermore, the person you responded to did not claim that weed is ineffective for pain, he merely expressed surprise.

Based on my own experience (and that of other weed smokers), I can confirm that weed heightens sensations, paranoia, and appetite, and it's not so weird to conclude that this might not be too compatible with a toothache.

And finally, unless I missed it, your study in fact does not appear to claim that weed helps with toothaches. My own experience is that it doesn't really help much with toothaches, and the desire to eat everything in my fridge combined with paranoia is not nice in combination with a toothache.

I suppose perhaps I was a bit unclear in my comment, so my apologies for that.

I'll leave it at that, though, because I find your conduct extremely unpleasant. It can be hard enough to talk about the pros and cons of weed without the 'it cures cancer' and 'it will make you addicted after one puff' crowds. And talking about it is something that I strongly support, because cannabis is a pretty powerful thing (both good and bad).

I never claimed to have researched marijuana's medicinal uses. My experience is all I have and it's purely recreational.

I do not suffer from chronic pain, and never have. Marijuana just has never crossed my mind as something to consume when injured to treat the pain.

People are downvoting my comment as if I said marijuana has no medicinal value, that's obviously not the case. I was only expressing my surprise at these applications of something which, for me, never seemed particularly numbing except in quite incapacitatingly high doses. When I take a pain killer, it's generally undesirable for it to make me completely useless for a day. I'm just curious if that's how it's being used or if my experience is not representative.

I've vaped pure CBD oil a few times as well, the effects were interesting and not at all disabling or paranoia-inducing, but no pain relieving effects were noticable either. I could see how it might be huge for preventing pain resulting from some neuropathic disorders, however.

To be clear: my post was not intended in any away to judge the patients finding physical pain relief in weed. It just surprises me, weed doesn't fill that role in my mind.

Glib and uninformed? FFS, he or she was merely sharing their personal experience and asking a question based on it. It was a perfectly reasonable and constructive comment and doesn't deserve down votes and smug responses.

My wife has MS and with it spasticity issues that cause pain. Cannabis relieves it. It really depends what is causing your pain.

Growing up playing sports I was never much of a fan of drugs ever, weed particularly because I hate the feeling of smoking.

The years of wear and tear finally took their toll a couple of years ago and I had to have hip surgery to repair a torn labrum and remove an impingement (shave down the bone of the femur in the socket to keep it from tearing things up).

By all accounts this is supposed to be an incredibly painful recovery for the first couple of weeks and they loaded me to the gills with opioids. I hate opioids as they make me itchy as all get out and I’m basically a worthless zombie for the day.

In Seattle, marijuana is legal so I went to the local dispensary for drinkable high CBD oils and chocolate squares on the recommendation of a buddy. It helped with the pain better than the pain killers, plus my high wasn’t the debilitating drool on yourself stupid that the painkillers were giving me. I wasn’t going to be operating a vehicle, but I could still pull out my laptop and write code.

A week later my pain was sufficiently under control I went back to work and the dosage was low enough I could be nearly pain free all day at work and not be high.

The original prognosis was likely 3 weeks due to pain management issues.

I’ve not taken it since, but if I ever have surgery again it’ll be my go to.

Just a quick comment for those taking this as advice:

You probably wanting something in the 40:60 to 20:80 THC:CBD range if you're looking for less intoxicating pain management. In genearl, CBD > THC will lower the intoxication (though not completely remove it!), with the higher ratio lowering it more. However, having some THC will make it much more effective at pain management. (Too much lone CBD veers into being psychoactive-esque, as an anti-psych.)

(The interaction between cannabinoids and you is complex.)

Psychological side effects of prolonged pot smoking are also something to consider. I think this is supposed to be the Victory Gin/Soma for us.

[1]: http://www.george-orwell.org/1984/22.html

[2]: https://www.huxley.net/soma/meaning.html

(fair disclosure: I have inhaled.)

For me marijuana isn't so much about pain relief as pain distraction.

Allow me to get a little metaphorical about my chronic pain. Personally I don't think the major pain relief component of marijuana has much to do with physical reality. When you're a chronic pain sufferer your mind starts to expect pain and you build an entire world of psychological expectation around your pain. What marijuana does is it forces your mind to wander away from what it thinks it should be thinking about.

So in short what I'm saying is marijuana makes you forget you suffer from pain. I think it has something to do with how in clinical studies it's proven that marijuana has an impact on short term memory.

I can see this. I deal with chronic pain daily and I smoke often. After I light up, I am still aware of the pain if I think about it, but as you mention, my mind wanders and I forget about the pain for moments at a time.

I think of it as one 'understands' their pain.

There any many different strains of marijuana each with different potencies of the underlying psychoactive chemicals. Smoking a bag of random whatever you bought in high school is not very comparable to walking into a new USA dispensary and buying a prescription of a strain that has been grown to combat specific symptoms you're trying to treat.

Some strains will make you feel dumb, make your head cloudy, and make you forget everything. Some will keep your mind 100% clear but make your body feel like its floating.

I don't think many people realize how useful marijuana is for pain management. I have a chronic illness and I've been able to get off all prescription drugs in place of medicinal marijuana.

The spokesman in the article hints at what I think is probably the real reason behind opposition to medical weed: an effective medicine that can be grown at home cheaply and easily is big pharma's worst nightmare.

And don't forget the mega-breweries like Coors and Budweiser. They've been lobbying to keep cannabis illegal for decades.

https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/the-top-5-industries-lo...

To summarize, police unions, prison guard unions, for-profit prisons, and drug and alcohol companies spend huge sums of money each year to keep cannabis illegal, and why? Because it ensures job security and profits. We’re speechless, though sadly not surprised.

It crosses a line when profiteering requires imprisonment of thousands and thousands of otherwise non-criminal people.

Could you offer up some examples? Most pain medication is generic and cheap. And to be honest, irreplaceable for most types of pain.

I just don't see marijuana displacing current drugs to a degree that would threaten drug companies.

It's clear that many people do find marijuana helpful for certain conditions, for example terminal cancer, where the appetite stimulating effect can be useful in helping forestall cachexia. So there are apparently cases where it is preferential to current drugs. But also it potentially threatens profits for drugs that are not currently developed.

The alternative is to believe that big pharma is not threatened by a medication that is extremely cheap/easy to cultivate, relatively safe, and has proven as well ad potential widespread application. I think you are being a little obtuse in asking for examples! Just Google it - there are plenty.

Many prescription drugs require drug tests, and will not be prescribed if marijuana is detected.

I've never heard of this. Which prescription drugs require drug tests?

I have been drug tested to receive Adderall before. I was told by the doctor that they were mainly testing for marijuana. I think it depends on the state.

I did not keep taking the stuff so I'm not sure if it would have been necessary on a regular basis to maintain the prescription.

I've been drug tested as prior to being given a Ritalin prescription. It's, of course, up to the sole degression of the prescribing physician.

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