Firefox 56: Last Stop Before Quantum
hacks.mozilla.org
hacks.mozilla.org
I'm also might not upgrade to quantum because I will lose my status bar (status 4 evar addon). I don't understand how people browse the web but can't see where links are taking them. Showing me where the link points when I hover the mouse over it is something so fundamental to browsing I just can't figure out why it was ever removed. I think by default it eventually shows up in a tiny popup but it doesn't show the full link and the delay is infuriating.
The straightforward way most people use screenshots nowadays is to paste in Slack/Messenger/Google doc. Seems like a no-brainer for the default to be "copy to clipboard", but instead it's "upload to servers with no indication of this on the first click".
It's true that there is no "always on" status bar at the bottom. However, when I hover over a link, its URL does appear in the bottom-left corner. Exact same behavior as Chrome.
Alternate implementation would be to make sure the cursor has actually stopped, which still needs a frame or two before you act on it.
I could definitely do without the fade-in, that's inconsistent with the rest of the OS and it feels clunky. I wonder if the designers are on a different OS where this is normal for tooltips?
Safari has a fade-in and triggers it immediately, so you do get a pop-up as you move your mouse around. But the fade and delay on closing smooths it out enough that it doesn't flash on and off. I don't love that it pops up instantly when I don't want it to.
Chrome and Firefox feel pretty similar. There's a delay on fade-in and a (longer?) delay on fade-out. Looking at it more closely, I think it does check that the cursor has stopped. Moving left to right across a link won't trigger the popup even if you're over it for a long time. So is it just the fade that makes opening feel slow?
I'm not totally sure whether I'd like it better without the fade. Since I don't see a way to turn it off there's no easy way to find out.
Firefox 57 (and maybe previous versions, I can't remember) pops up a "temporary status bar" (for lack of a better phrase) with the link destination in it when you hover on a link (https://imgur.com/a/Vo7AZ).
Yes, this has been the way it's done for a very long time. It's such a basic feature that I don't think there was ever a version of Firefox without this feature in one form or another.
can Firefox's screenshot tool be disabled? I'd like to switch back from Chrome due to Big Brother concerns but not if Firefox is making questionable choices like this.
Outside of the browser, fire up the screenshot tool, crop whatever you want to show, save it, upload it to imgur or website of choice, attach or paste it.
I would liken the tool to Fedora's amazing fpaste tool, which you invoke via the following:
foo | fpaste
fpaste also takes several safety precautions such as static URLs that delete themselves after 24 hours.
So I can see Screenshots being very useful for that purpose. It just needs to be better about disclosing what it's doing.
cat verysecret.csv | cut -f 1 -d ' ' |fpaste -z -x -a
If you accidentally fpasted something sensitive, you're given a deactivation link to remove it immediately.
Screenshot in firefox is aware of the page, you can select the appropriate html tag visually.
Actually I thought they removed it in recent Nighlty and was looking for it, after few days I found it in the triple dot, (just next to the start and pocket icons).
I saw that too, but it seems the only way to do it is the old ctrl+shift+i and use the dev screen shot tool after enabling it in the toolbox. This method does always save locally though.
I remember recent HN submissions about Mozilla sharing information with Google...
We've gotten similar feedback about the Save and Download buttons, we added the cloud icon in part to make that clearer. I feel like there's a ticket about it as well, but I not able to find it. We're planning on adding a Copy button, and we'll probably do some user research on the buttons generally to make sure the choice is clear.
We did have a full page screenshot feature, but it didn't make the cut for Firefox 56. It's back in Firefox 57.
If you have any issues or feedback on Screenshots, we track most of our work in GitHub and welcome new issues there: https://github.com/mozilla-services/screenshots
I'm not convinced "user research" is the best way to go here. If the majority of your selected users think "save" should mean "upload to mozilla" does that mean they're right? And when they hit "save" in microsoft word or whatever, they think the document is going to microsoft servers?
"Save" means put it in my local storage.
"Download" means copy some file from a remote server onto my local storage.
"Upload" means copy it from my local storage to a remote server.
I also just realized that clicking the "save" button clobbers whatever is in my clipboard.
https://screenshots.firefox.com/oFTVibyVnGx7LPAl/news.ycombi...
More or less, yes, if more people understand one design than another, then the one that more people understand is the right one. We're generally shooting for more than a majority though, we'd want most people to understand the interface, and would also take negative reactions into account.
In our past studies we found people generally understood the buttons well enough, and specifically it was obvious after first use what was happening. But we only compared the current buttons to one other option (which didn't compare well), so it wasn't a very thorough test.
There's more overhead in updating this interface than some others, since we have to get updated translations (to more strings than just the button) and change all our onboarding, which is why we've kind of left it be until we can look at the full set of buttons more closely.
Again thanks for your replies and hopefully they can be more clear in the future (without being incorrect). And just in case I have sounded like a jerk, I really do love Firefox and I have been using it since it first came out as Phoenix. I appreciate the work you all put into it even if my above comments didn't make that clear. I actually used the Mozilla Suite before that, too. I still have, wear, and love my dinosaur head t-shirt I ordered from the mozilla store soooo long ago. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Mo...
At the very least, change it to "Save to Cloud" and "Save to Disk." But to be really clear, "Upload and Share" is definitely the way to go.
Sure, it's obvious after the first use, but if somebody is taking a screenshot of sensitive information, is the best way for them to find this out to show them that they've already uploaded said sensitive information to Mozilla's servers?
I take screenshots of internal graphs, admin pages that may contain pseudo-private endpoints and admin account information all the time ("Logged in as $ADMIN_USER", account numbers with vendors, etc.). Sharing those in a private chat or email is a big part of my screenshotting use case. People screenshot a lot of private data.
I don't think Mozilla is wise in making "send your image to a public bucket protected only by the obscurity of its URL" the default behavior, at least not without making it obvious that this is what's happening. This sneaky exfiltration of private data is a large part of what people hate about Google and Facebook.
Maybe there could be an opt-out on first use? I get that your average grandma isn't going to understand the distinction and will want something she can share (but she's also probably just trying to get to email or Facebook anyway), but this is a real potential security problem for your users.
Something something Henry Ford and faster horses. It's still bad design even if 50%+ε understand save as 'upload to some server' and not the old meaning that predates Windows 95 which is to save it to local storage. You shouldn't be taking liberties whenever you are about to upload any bit of information from your users, instead you should obtain informed consent from all users and not just from better informed ones that can parse the meaning from the cloud icon. The UI is wrong until only a moron in a hurry[1] would be mistaken about what your software is about to perform. Otherwise how are you any better than that other company that starts with a G and ends with oogle.
I use the right-click/context menu a fair amount. Since FF screenshots was added, it gets triggered frequently when I'm popping the right/click menu on a page -- without my making any click after the right-click to open the context menu. And with the trackpad disabled and using a mouse with a physical button and a rather distinct click, I can say this with considerable confidence.
So, then I have to to hit the escape key to kill the FF screenshot functionality. Which is becoming muscle memory, at this point.
This is a pretty appealing claim. I'm ashamed to admit that one thing that might keep me on Chrome is the trove of passwords in my sync'd up account. But I'll definitely give Quantum a test drive.
https://www.ghacks.net/2017/07/10/google-chrome-password-exp...
It may also be possible through the data portability site.
You can also see them by going to https://passwords.google.com
This is probably because 70% of addons go away, there are no replacements of very low quality replacements for most of addons I use daily.
Firefox lets me do a triple-finger tap and then scroll a page smoothly at a consistent pace. This is wonderful for reading sites such as HN without getting RSI from doing the same motion again and again.
I was the same until a few days ago when I finally took the time to switch to a real password manager. A HN'er recommended Bitwarden[0] and I have to say it was pretty painless and I am much happier knowing my passwords are with a third party (not that I have any real issue with Google but I did worry about having all my eggs in one basket as such).
I haven't paid for Bitwarden yet but I plan to providing it doesn't have a massive failure in the next couple of weeks. Looks like it will easily be worth the $10/year though.
Another added bonus is that their Android app is very decent as well and so far has worked with all my apps as well which is handy and not something I had thought much about in the past. Makes life that little bit easier although I don't have to enter app passwords much in Android it is nice to have the option now.
But back to Firefox - I checked out Nightly when it hit 57 a while back and was extremely impressed. It felt like a whole new browser. Not sure if I will switch from Chrome just yet but I am excited for the future of Firefox again.
Also for some reason, Firefox keeps complaining that bitwarden is freezing its UI thread.
Can't change hotkey for auto-fill login form in Firefox.
No Support for standard notes (yet I guess).
UI renders very slowly on FF and has tons of strange inconsistencies.
It definitely has the FEEL of a somewhat younger open source project while LastPass was much more refined.
I'm debating if I should bother learning C# for the sole purpose of trying to fix some of these issues, because it is maddening enough where I actually use Chrome when i do things that require logins.
Well that is not quite true actually. In Firefox you can't change the hotkeys but that is more of a Firefox issue as you can't change the hotkeys for any extension. You can in Chrome though.
I am not a security expert, so I cannot assert their trustworthiness myself. I know that you can run your own server. But even then, without auditing the code, configuring a firewall, and checking network logs, I cannot assure the server and the clients do not call home. And all of those solutions are both prohibitively time-consuming and way out of my area of expertise.
How did you decide Bitwarden was trustworthy? How can I stop worrying and give them my passwords already?
You could always upload your encrypted key database to dropbox, and keep your private key on your phone, on your computer, or on a USB stick, if you want automatic sync.
Just make sure to configure Syncthing to ignore KeePass lockfiles.
I do prefer the idea of using something like Keepass and not relying on a service but I found it rather frustrating to manage between my multiple devices. I knew if I were to actually make use of a password manager it needed to be a smooth experience because otherwise I would just return to using Chrome's built in one out of laziness.
After researching the main online managers I decided to go with Bitwarden. It is open source so if it does do something dodgy I would hope it is found and reported. I do not have the time nor expertise to audit all of the code myself so I have to put some trust in others.
Plus while it would be a real pain in the ass if accounts were compromised due to the developer being an asshole/idiot it wouldn't destroy my life. I have a strong password on my primary email account (not stored in Bitwarden) along with 2FA. Most of the logins stored in Bitwarden are for things like Hacker News, Reddit, Slack (personal not work), etc. Randomly generated 18+ character strings that are a pain to enter manually, especially on a phone.
As I mentioned in my other comment, the only gotcha is to make sure you set up your syncthing ignore file to ignore the KeePass database lockfile.
Also, a bit off topic, but the Tab Queue thing in Firefox for Android is incredibly awesome. I have some newsletters that I follow, hit the links, they're queued in Firefox, and I stay in my (K-9) mail app. When I've gonr through all the newsletters, I switch to FF, and all my pages are there.
It's surprised me the amount some people rely on addons for their workflow and the amount of effort they will be going through to resist this change come 57.
For my usage, I've found Firefox Klar/Focus (which I believe already include the speed improvements from 57+?) on Android and have been extremely impressed.
I think WebExtensions should have matured a bit longer, with Quantum, electrolysis, and Photon being made available for all with the old extensions.
I think they couldn't keep everything together with the degree of access old plugins had to Firefox internals. So at some point they had to rip off the band aid.
And today, they're not ready. And they won't be in six weeks either.
[1] https://arewewebextensionsyet.com/
Edit: [1] answers "Are we WebExtensions yet?" as Yes. I don't agree.
Don't listen to the stragglers who want all the old Firefox behaviors supported forever. The wast majority of users don't care about Tree style tabs and vim style keyboard navigation or what XUL even is. They just want something snappy and fast like Chrome. That's how you get users to use your browser. That's how Firefox became popular in the first place. That's how any browser ever became popular. Yes even IE was faster than Netscape at one point, maybe because of nefarious practices by MS, but it was faster, and that's what the users wanted. It's all about the speed.
The ugly redesign is also a thorn in my side.
I've always been satisfied with the built in session management (restore last session on open) and don't have any feedback on the other.
As for the session manager, I need more features: saving and loading several sessions, etc.
Even now adjustments I used to be able to make in seconds by installing an alternative theme now take an hour of wrestling with the Classic Theme Restorer extension to restore and unbreak with each version upgrade.
[1] extensions.legacy.enabled -> true
Interestingly Firefox Focus uses WebKit (/Blink?), since that's what Android's webview provides. Firefox for Android should get the improvements around version 58 or 59.
Also good to note, for people planning to stick with an older Firefox for as long as they can: Firefox 52 is an Extended Support Release, and as such will actually be actively supported until June next year. This will give WebExtensions some extra time to mature for more use cases: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/
If I was an affected extension developer I would be walking away now. My user base is about to crumble and the best I can do is maybe offer a pale version of my extension in the new system along with a bunch of excuses out of my control. If perhaps WE does get the features I need, why go to the work to re-write? My users will be long gone.
Quantum is great, don't get me wrong. But the new APIs are too immature to be shutting down a huge number of mature extensions and the users that rely on them. It really makes me question the leadership decisions happening at Mozilla in general.
Of all companies one would have thought Microsoft understood the value of backwards compatibility...
I think mozilla failed to understand that extensions were the prime differentiator and that a faster Chrome is far down the list of requirements.
Go to about:preferences In Firefox Updates choose "Never Check for Updates"
Breathe easy!
I know this is not recommended, but I love my XUL based extensions a little too much (Tab Groups primary among those) to give them up so easily.
[1]: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3032457
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/refresh-firefox-reset-a...
I'm also saddened that a transition with such a large change in functionality for end users didn't warrant syncing up with a Long Term Support version.
There's going to be a bit of a waiting game to see which extensions get ported and with what percentage of their original functionality retained.
Then it will be decision time.
or you know, use ESR and get 6 more months of support/bugfixes.
As for Focus/Klar, it is just a shell. The engine used is webview, and the oldest supported Android is 5.0 (because of an API and because that was when Webview was made updateable outside of Android proper).
You can move back/forward and refresh, auto-hide certain buttons like downloads, add items to the "overflow" menu, toggle full/compact mode, toggle title bar, toggle a "grab" space...there are a lot of options.
They've also added proper support for light and dark icons for plugins. So now buttons like 1Password don't stand out with a dark theme.
To me it feels like a return to the level of customization I'd gotten used to in older versions of Firefox. And FWIW, this is what mine looks like: https://i.imgur.com/seJZeg6.png
It's like Mozilla is deliberately committing corporate suicide with these hasty feature removals.
It's coming. He has started. You can help by becoming a patron.
Woah!! I didn't think it was possible but...download acceleration post 57?
That's the problem. I shouldn't have to find the switches in the first place. Plus they constantly keep shuffling the settings around(on other google apps and android too) and I can never find the ones I am looking for.
> Before Iridium Browser, we had to decide if we wanted to have cutting edge technologies like sandboxed processes, WebRTC, WebUSB … , or if we wanted to use a browser that respects our privacy. So we decided to use the power of free software and build a browser that can do both. We analysed the code of Chromium and stripped out the functionality which exposes data to others in a way we don‘t like. See most important changes here: https://github.com/iridium-browser/tracker/wiki/Differences-...
(Just make sure you don't sign chromium into your google account. If you sign into your firefox account in firefox, then data is also uploaded, albeit in an encrypted format.)
Would love to not have to use an extension to do this.
I believe they're not including it for regular Firefox by default because they don't want to piss off the content industry as long as there aren't enough viable alternative business models.
Firefox iOS (on iOS 11+) definitively offers those options, on Android it's private browsing only by default and I don't think there's an option to enable it in normal browsing.
Then type `privacy` in the search bar that appears.
Look for `privacy.trackingprotection.ui.enabled` and double click it.
I think that will turn it on everywhere.
To me, NoScript is sine qua non. It's the primary differentiating factor between Firefox and other browsers.
There's also uMatrix as a replacement.
Typing this in vim after viewing hackers news in w3m shows how desperate I am.
Also the ability to redefine keys since I use colemak.
I was briefly trying chrome and cVim did seem promising but I prefer firefox.
Edit: I had to try it immediately and it looks very promising, thanks. Covers all the basic stuff I need.
Depending on what you mean by this, be sure to check the advanced settings for vimium-ff. It will let you choose which characters to use for the hints, or there's a buried option to use the link text instead.
For instance, doesn't work on non-website pages, often have to cmd-w when x doesn't work completely defeating the extension to begin with. No d vs D to close prev/next tab, or p vs P. No temporary pass-thru, just whitelists.
Anyone who thinks Vimium is anywhere nearly as polished as Vimperator probably never used the latter much. Though not sure if it's to do with API limits vs general lack of polish.
But since Chrome never had a single solution as good as Pentadactyl/Vimperator, must be an API thing which means we're a bit screwed.
That's why I suggested it - apparently OP didn't use it that extensively :)
Note that even if Chrome didn't have an API, that doesn't mean Firefox will never get it. For example, Vimium had to reimplement its own address bar, but I believe they're working on API's that will let it manipulate Firefox's.
https://github.com/Koushien/keyboard-shortcut-api
It's too late for it (or something like it) to be in Firefox 57, but it seems likely a future Firefox will have this capability.
Pretty sure all being worked on and excited for >>speed>> but I'm scarred this transition gonna be really annoying.
The whole reason I use Firefox is the availability of add-ons such as NoScript and Cookie Culler. I'm guessing NoScript will work with Quantum, but Cookie Culler hasn't been updated since last year.
Roomy Bookmarks is also a major quality-of-life factor; it allows me to have a well-stocked bookmarks bar. And it definitely won't work with Quantum. That alone will give me strong pause about updating.
What about cookie autodelete?
Suggestion WebExtension replacements is brilliant. There's already multiple crowd-sourced lists on Reddit's r/Firefox basically for this purpose.
(If you zoom on a site with text and images in Firefox the page layout gets messed up which makes it impossible to read...)
But I cant get my nightly to remember my logins.
Agreed! I am astonished, and I switched back to FF after many, many years.
> But I cant get my nightly to remember my logins.
Quantum is in beta now, did you try that?
Edit: and clearly it remains in nightly.
Do you mean 'restore previous session'? It was moved from the start page to library and now to the hamburger menu. :/
I found a config option that said something like "delete cookies when firefox is closed" I changed this to "No", but somehow it didn't stay.
Very stupid reason to keep Chromium around...